[45acp230]

I have a friend who has a Victory model in .38 S&W. Not Special. Has the “ flaming bomb” and W.B. On the butt. Stamped “ United States Property” on the left side top strap. Serial number V128847. I thought the Victory models in .38/200, aka .38 S & W went to England. Guns that stayed in the states were .38 S & W Special. The flaming bomb, W.B., and Us Property stamps show I was wrong! Again! I suppose, during wartime, any contract overruns, would stay here for plant guards,etc. Any further history would be useful. Thanks, Hank.

 

[mrerick]

IIRC several of these emerged brand new from surplus stock storage...

Congratulatiosn to your friend. That's a nice bit of history.

 

[Absalom]

I have a friend who has a Victory model in .38 S&W. Not Special. Has the “ flaming bomb” and W.B. On the butt. Stamped “ United States Property” on the left side top strap. Serial number V128847. I thought the Victory models in .38/200, aka .38 S & W went to England. Guns that stayed in the states were .38 S & W Special. The flaming bomb, W.B., and Us Property stamps show I was wrong!

No, you were not!

All British Service models sent to Britain under Lend-Lease were so stamped at the time, since they technically remained Uncle Sam's property.

This one is a nice collector's example since it appears to have escaped post-war British commercial proofing.
.

 

[Johano6]

IIRC several of these emerged brand new from surplus stock storage...

Congratulatiosn to your friend. That's a nice bit of history.

+1

 

[Roadrunner]

This M&P apparently was in the first batch that went over in 1940-- she somehow escaped being 'proofed' and the markings thereof. Lanyard ring was replaced with a plug. I replaced the plug with a aftermarket ring and she shoots fine. She rests in a SD MYRES period holster and except for the ring and added Tyler, is all original, including the stocks. I got Lee dies first thing, but have been wondering if something better is available. I know the 38S&W is not a target round but I like making the best ammo I can. The Lee die is carbide but the other big named makers are not. This is not a big deal if the dies will produce a better round. Old, and New factory ammo has somewhat of a roll crimp. The Lee die, not so much. I am drawn to this little round and have two I frames dating to 1920.

 

[Adirondacker]

The Lee die is carbide but the other big named makers are not.

Surprised others don't offer it, but maybe demand doesn't justfy it. (Tried Hornady? I have several of their carbide sets & love them.) But I sure wouldn't trade a carbide die for the mess of lubing cases for some hypothetical improvement in accuracy, which I greatly doubt you'd get anyway. Best accuracy is usually achieved with no crimp at all, but if you must crimp, a taper crimp is better than a roll crimp.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Lee dies are some of the best that you can buy. I agree on the crimping recommendations. However you should be able to adjust the roll crimp on a Lee die from mild to heavy crimp. At least I can do that on my dies on my Lee press.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[45acp230]

Thanks,guys. I appreciate the information. Nice to know some of the history. Hank

 

[Waidmann]

Roadrunner, that is also called the South African order and in the absence of the Arrow U the S.A. diversion (to England), either way it will letter to Capetown. OP, Absalom is correct with the caveat that with Victory Models like English grammar there is an exception lurking somewhere. When someone produces a V marked .38 S&W gun with no bomb or U.S. Property marks, I'll be waiting.

 

[Waidmann]

There were no overruns. The war ended. S&W sold what was lying around. The left over SV frames shipped civilian with a plugged swivel hole. If the serial number had not been applied, the V was discontinued. After a time the military frames were exhausted. All the civilian sales got magna grips.
There were still agencies issuing .38 S&W's in the U.S. however I have yet to a Victory in .38 S&W that can be linked to an agency sold by the Defense Supplies Corporation. Those DSC guns generally lack WB (Waldemar Broberg), GHD (Guy H. Drewry), the Ordnance bomb or U.S. Property marks. Guns provided under Lend-Lease were initially marked UNITED STATES PROPERTY, later U.S. PROPERTY on the top/left.

English civil proofs (London or Birmingham) establish that the gun entered civilian life at that proof house. None of the other Commonwealth countries have that requirement.

 

[Absalom]

There were no overruns. The war ended. S&W sold what was lying around. The left over SV frames shipped civilian with a plugged swivel hole.....

Those DSC guns generally lack WB (Waldemar Broberg), GHD (Guy H. Drewry), the Ordnance bomb or U.S. Property marks. Guns provided under Lend-Lease were initially marked UNITED STATES PROPERTY, later U.S. PROPERTY on the top/left.

One interesting aspect is the time gap between the end of military production and the resumption of civilian shipments. The last military Victorys shipped to the Navy in August 1945. The first documented commercial SV shipment left the factory in February 1946, to Cleveland police.

One minor correction: All non-military Victorys, DSC and Maritime Commission, did receive the ordnance bomb on the butt; that appears to have been a part of the inspection that all guns were subjected to.

 

[Roadrunner]

This M&P apparently was in the first batch that went over in 1940-- she somehow escaped being 'proofed' and the markings thereof. Lanyard ring was replaced with a plug. I replaced the plug with a aftermarket ring and she shoots fine. She rests in a SD MYRES period holster and except for the ring and added Tyler, is all original, including the stocks. I got Lee dies first thing, but have been wondering if something better is available. I know the 38S&W is not a target round but I like making the best ammo I can. The Lee die is carbide but the other big named makers are not. This is not a big deal if the dies will produce a better round. Old, and New factory ammo has somewhat of a roll crimp. The Lee die, not so much. I am drawn to this little round and have two I frames dating to 1920.

IN an effort to make a better round I have a RCBS set of dies on the way, If the end product from them does not work in my 1920 guns the Lee dies will remain in service. when I got a roll crimo with the Lee dies they would not extract, if I could get them in the guns. So far only a taper crimp works. Must be me for sure. Would Love to get my hands on that Victory. OR one like it.

 

[Waidmann]

All I will ever say is that there are no absolutes with Victory Models.

 

[Adirondacker]

All I will ever say is that there are no absolutes with Victory Models.

Because in any manufacturing process requiring individual human actions, there will be things that should have been done, but weren't, through carelessness or incompetance, & things that should not have been done, but were, for the same reasons; & under wartime conditions, human error is multiplied.

 

[Waidmann]

Or, conversely the policy changed several times in the course of things.

 

[Absalom]

All I will ever say is that there are no absolutes with Victory Models. View attachment 474587 View attachment 474588

Just curious what you were trying to show with these.

 

[Waidmann]

No bombs, no initials, no P

 

[Absalom]

No bombs, no initials, no P

Ah. Well, none would be expected on the serials you posted.

These are all high enough to have the bomb and initial on the topstrap (unless they’re DSC/USMC, which isn’t discernible without a topstrap photo), and they are also late enough for the butt P to have been replaced by the triple P on frame/cylinder/barrel; that change happened in late 1943.

 

[Roadrunner]

Since my last post, this really fine Victory came my way. She is all original, including the stocks and NO rework marks. The bore is spotless and she shoots like a dream.

A quick trip to the range with my own loads gave me just the results I was hoping for- I dont think this was ever issued-- this is one of several plates, all with like results. 😁

Lacking a proper holster, I secure this vintage HEISER holster which she likes just fine.😁

 

[45acp230]

Oh, I like that! Nice catch, Roadrunner. Hank