Smith And Wesson Forums banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please forgive me if I use the wrong names for parts... but my "Triple Lock" .44 Spl is not allowing the hammer to travel back (either in single action or double action mode) unless I push the thumbpiece back a tiny fraction of an inch. From what I can tell, the cylinder center pin is not pushing the hammer block far enough back (when cylinder is in battery) to allow the block to clear the hammer. This is what the action looks like with cylinder in battery and hammer block pushed to the rear as far as it will go by the depressed cylinder pin.



Here is how the hammer block looks when the cylinder is not in battery. It is fully blocking the hammer.



Here is a closeup of how the hammer is catching on the very lip of the hammer block. There is a slight bevel on the hammer block that is supposed to allow the hammer to engage and push the block out of the way. In my case, the hammer block is not being pushed back far enough for the hammer to touch this beveled area and the hammer remains blocked (unless I physically push the thumb piece to the rear).



So... either the front or rear of the cylinder pin has worn down so that it is not long enough to push the hammer block far enough back, or .....

The front locking mechanism acting on the front of the cylinder pin is not pushing the pin far enough to the rear. There may be crud inside this double pinned spring loaded device. I've no desire to try and push out these two tiny pins out and release the complicated-looking spring-loaded catch from the end of the shroud.



I assume that I could file a bit more on the hammer block bevel so that the hammer will engage and push the block backwards. Do you guys have a better suggestion?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Another possibility is that the face of the hammer block where is contacts the cylinder pin may be worn down, but in this pic it doesn't appear to be worn.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,106 Posts
I bet there's something stuck in the cylinder preventing the pin from travelling all the way back.
I'd suggest disassembly and cleaning first. For that front catch, try spraying it out with Remcleaner or brake cleaner while working the catch, that may blow most of the crud out.

Fix what's wrong- Not By Filing back the hammer block :eek:
Ignore the voice of Bubba whispering in your ear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I bet there's something stuck in the cylinder preventing the pin from travelling all the way back.
I'd suggest disassembly and cleaning first. For that front catch, try spraying it out with Remcleaner or brake cleaner while working the catch, that may blow most of the crud out.
There is nothing impeding the cylinder pin movement. I can easily push it plenty far enough with the cylinder swung out for it to easily depress the hammer block fully to the rear. So... it is probably some crud in the front catch that is not allowing the cylinder pin to be pushed far enough.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,504 Posts
^^Amen! The part you refer to and pictured above is called the bolt. The cylinder release mechanism on the triple lock is different than more modern N frames. You might have to remove the extractor rod and clean the springs and inside the cylinder to make sure the center pin travels fully rearward. Also, check the bolt spring and its recess at the rear of the frame to make sure it is not binding.

They're not making these anymore. So, don't put a file on anything or you'll regret it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,106 Posts
There is nothing impeding the cylinder pin movement. I can easily push it plenty far enough with the cylinder swung out for it to easily depress the hammer block fully to the rear. So... it is probably some crud in the front catch that is not allowing the cylinder pin to be pushed far enough.
There you go. Spray that out and see if it fixes it.

Here's a schematic for you. Hope that helps.

Font Parallel Pattern Paper Illustration
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The bolt does not seem to have any impendence to rearward travel. The spring inside it is fully functional. The cylinder pin itself doesn't seem restricted. I'm beginning to think that the most likely culprit is the face of the pin on the front catch that depresses the cylinder pin. It may have become very slightly worn so that it is not pushing the pin and bolt far enough to allow the hammer to pivot. The "bubba" whispering in my ear about possibly filing just a tad more on the bolt bevel... is me. It seems like that is the only solution short of replacing impossible-to-find items like cylinder pin, bolt, or front catch. When the cylinder is swung out, the bolt blocks the hammer with plenty of surface area. When the cylinder is in battery, the area that is impeding the hammer from engaging that bevel area is very, very slight. I would only have to file/polish just the very top corner of that beveled area to allow the hammer to slide past it and push the bolt out of the way.



But... I'll hold off filing for now pending other possible solutions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ah... thanks for the correct schematic. I'm thinking that the pin on the front locking bolt #663 is worn. I'll bet I won't find one of those on eBay!

Now that I see what the front catch looks like, I might be able to disassembe it and see if there is any crud in there. I tried spraying brake cleaner and working the catch several times without any improvement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,106 Posts
Ah... thanks for the correct schematic. I'm thinking that the pin on the front locking bolt #663 is worn. I'll bet I won't find one of those on eBay!
I'd strip the front catch to make sure there's maximum clearance then and to make sure there's enough spring tension to push the bolt back. That part doesn't usually wear.

I'd suggest you log into the Blue forum www.smith-wessonforum.com and seek the advice of Hondo44 there. He's probably seen this before.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wiregrassguy

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,504 Posts
Jim (Hondo44) is a member here, too. A PM (conversation) to him might bring him into the thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Jim (Hondo44) is a member here, too. A PM (conversation) to him might bring him into the thread.
I'll contact him. In the meantime, I wire brass-brushed all the parts and put it back together. I've noticed that when the cylinder is closed, the front little tab on the front catch is sticking out farther than when cylinder is swung out. So... I tapped on it gently with a nylon mallet and it goes farther into the front lug... and the hammer is released. So... I think I will have to take the front catch apart and clean it out good. I'll check with Hondo44 first.

I have to ask help on how to send PM on this forum. I'm not seeing where I can do that.:unsure:

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,215 Posts
Simply click on the 'Start a Conversation' button.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think that the front locking bolt is not centered on the cylinder pin. Here is a pic of the two mating up without the extractor rod cap on. It may be sticking on the inside of the cap. There is no restriction on the the movement of the Y-shaped locking bolt when the cylinder is swung out. (I can surely see why S&W gave up on the old "triple lock" mechanism. Too complicated. The new inertia "triple lock" on the Model 69 Combat .44 Mag is much simpler).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I fixed the lock-up problem by filing a few thousandths off of the bolt bevel where the rear of the hammer is supposed to push it out of the way. When the cylinder is out of the frame, the bolt blocks the hammer by 1/8" at least, so the minimal filing I did does not affect the gun's safety. For whatever reason, the cylinder pin was not being pushed back far enough by the front lock up mechanism... probably binding inside the ejector cap due to a line-up issue. But now the hammer works fine when cylinder is in the frame.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I fixed the lock-up problem by filing a few thousandths off of the bolt bevel where the rear of the hammer is supposed to push it out of the way. When the cylinder is out of the frame, the bolt blocks the hammer by 1/8" at least, so the minimal filing I did does not affect the gun's safety. For whatever reason, the cylinder pin was not being pushed back far enough by the front lock up mechanism... probably binding inside the ejector cap due to a line-up issue. But now the hammer works fine when cylinder is in the frame.
Although you've rectified the problem, you didn't choose the best possible option. Others advised you NOT to remove metal from irreplaceable parts; This is something that should not be done to an older gun with parts already worn down by years of use. Your gun worked fine, once; When it stopped working, it wasn't due to a part having too much metal. Gun parts don't get bigger as they age.
If you check further, now that it's too late, you may find that a weakened, partially-collapsed spring may have been at fault; If not a spring, then a front locking bolt worn just short enough to stop functioning, something repaired by ADDING metal, not removing it. Hardened lubricant could cause this. Even a slightly-bent cylinder center pin could cause this fault.
The very LAST tool that one wants to use on an old firearm is a file.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Too late now.^^^^^^^^:( The problem might come back. Then what more filing? I suspect it was a old spring.
Philth, old soft spring, twisted spring, bent center pin, bent yoke barrel, twisted yoke, bent ejector rod--all possible causes, and not a ONE is 'fixed' by filing, or grinding, or attacking it with a fire-axe, or dragging it behind your truck.;) Almost everything that you do to an old gun, or a new one for that matter, is 'gentle.' If it requires great force, or removing metal, you're doing something wrong.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top