Smith And Wesson Forums banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have wanted a Victory in my collection for a long time. Finally, I lucked into one and the price was right. But the more research I do the more puzzled I became. Let’s see what you guys think. Any information you can give me will be much appreciated. - BenH.

My concerns: First off I do know that I am missing the top of the ejector, the grip face at bottom and bottom of the frame have been modified and we have no lanyard ring. Second, I noticed that most “victories” in my books do not have the two cutouts underneath the barrel. Most are single cut outs. I know this to be a feature of earlier S&W revolvers but I have never seen it in the victory. Also their are no numbers there. Should there be? Third, I also have recesses for the shoulders of the cartridges inside the cylinder. Which I have also not been able to verify on any other victories. So how does a Hand Ejector / M&P become a victory? I know these were used in the first world war but I do not know them to be marked Victory. Am I incorrect on this?



















 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,302 Posts
Welcome to the forum. It would help if we knew what was puzzling to you because its hard to answer questions that arent asked. Looks like someone ground off the toe of the grip frame. Someone with more i=knowledge will be along
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Welcome to the forum. It would help if we knew what was puzzling to you because its hard to answer questions that arent asked. Looks like someone ground off the toe of the grip frame. Someone with more i=knowledge will be along
Thanks for the welcome. My concerns: First off I do know that I am missing the top of the ejector, the grip face and bottom of the frame have been modified and we have no lanyard ring. Second, I noticed that most “victories” in my books do not have the two cutouts underneath the barrel. Most are single cut outs. I know this to be a feature of earlier S&W revolvers but I have never seen it in the victory. Also their are no numbers there. Should there be? Third, I also have recesses for the shoulders of the cartridges inside the cylinder. Which I have also not been able to verify on any other victories. so how does a Hand Ejector / M&P become a victory? I know these were used in the first world war but I do not know them to be marked Victory. Am I incorrect on this?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,292 Posts
Looks like a Victory with many parts. Barrel has no matching s/n, no matching s/n on the back of the cylinder, stocks are from a different s/n. Quite common to see a missing lanyard ring. So start with a frame, change the barrel, cylinder and stocks and there you are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,179 Posts
Those N stamps lead me to believe the frame was originally nickel and refinished blue. I'm thinking frankengun with faux stampings.

499870
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Those N stamps lead me to believe the frame was originally nickel and refinished blue. I'm thinking frankengun with faux stampings.

View attachment 499870
[/QUOTE
Those N stamps lead me to believe the frame was originally nickel and refinished blue. I'm thinking frankengun with faux stampings.

View attachment 499870
I don’t deny the Franken gun but this gun would’ve needed to be finished a lot better than it is was if it was going to be nickel plated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,179 Posts
Nickel goes bad, bath dip to remove, apply stamps, then blue.
N, especially on the grip frame, denotes nickel finish starting a little before the war.

Just calling it based on what I'm seeing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,716 Posts
Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Ben! I'm going to side with you against delcrossv. Fran's usually right but, in this case, I don't think your gun was ever plated. The Victories were never WWI guns...only WWII. However, the barrel was likely made closer to WWI than WWII as S&W quit making the two notch versions in 1928. So the barrel was replaced with an older barrel. The cylinder appears to be a much later magnum bored version. Does .357 magnum fully insert into the chambers? We can sorta guestimate when the cylinder was made by loosening the extractor rod. If it loosens turning left vs. right, it was made before 1961. You may have to put 3 empty cartridge casings in every other chamber and some padded pliers on the rod to check.

Now, play the Twilight Zone music. I think your gun may have been used in China or Japan. It appears to have Chinese or Japanese markings on the butt. Also, the rounded toe and heel and "plain clothes" mods to the grips are characteristic of oriental police...or military usage. How it got back into the US without importer stamps is (play the music again).

Ok, with apologies to Jimmy Buffett, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Ben! I'm going to side with you against delcrossv. Fran's usually right but, in this case, I don't think your gun was ever plated. The Victories were never WWI guns...only WWII. However, the barrel was likely made closer to WWI than WWII as S&W quit making the two notch versions in 1928. So the barrel was replaced with an older barrel. The cylinder appears to be a much later magnum bored version. Does .357 magnum fully insert into the chambers? We can sorta guestimate when the cylinder was made by loosening the extractor rod. If it loosens turning left vs. right, it was made before 1961. You may have to put 3 empty cartridge casings in every other chamber and some padded pliers on the rod to check.

Now, play the Twilight Zone music. I think your gun may have been used in China or Japan. It appears to have Chinese or Japanese markings on the butt. Also, the rounded toe and heel and "plain clothes" mods to the grips are characteristic of oriental police...or military usage. How it got back into the US without importer stamps is (play the music again).

Ok, with apologies to Jimmy Buffett, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
Let me check on those things and I will get back to you and let you know what I found.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,292 Posts
Re the s/n V246909; 1943 s/n's ranged btw V21xxxx - V49xxxx. V296xxx shipped mid 1943.

s/n example on barrel flat
499969


s/n example on back of cylinder
499970
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,817 Posts
^ Typically I vote with Guy. I suspect the rear of the cylinder is an add-on similar to what is sometimes seen on restored .455 cylinders originally shaved to .45 ACP. It was thought in earlier times magnum cases needed the additional support. The bomb and P(for proof) are correct but either WB or GHD have been covered in the chicken script later added on. In the late 1940's through the 1960's an LAPD competitive shooter named "Fuzzy" Farrant popularized removing material from the front of the butt even to the point of altering the serial number and selling his own line of grips to fit. The front sight blade on that pre-1928 barrel should seem overly thin for the rear notch in the frame. The crane and frame do not match, the inside of the side plate should share the frame's assembly number. I'd look out of curiosity. An importer's mark was not required until 1968 . The requirement in those days was a country of origin stamp, already present.

The guns were plentiful through the 1960's and every atrocity imaginable was done to them. Save conversion to .22, yours is rather interesting. Welcome aboard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Ben! I'm going to side with you against delcrossv. Fran's usually right but, in this case, I don't think your gun was ever plated. The Victories were never WWI guns...only WWII. However, the barrel was likely made closer to WWI than WWII as S&W quit making the two notch versions in 1928. So the barrel was replaced with an older barrel. The cylinder appears to be a much later magnum bored version. Does .357 magnum fully insert into the chambers? We can sorta guestimate when the cylinder was made by loosening the extractor rod. If it loosens turning left vs. right, it was made before 1961. You may have to put 3 empty cartridge casings in every other chamber and some padded pliers on the rod to check.

Now, play the Twilight Zone music. I think your gun may have been used in China or Japan. It appears to have Chinese or Japanese markings on the butt. Also, the rounded toe and heel and "plain clothes" mods to the grips are characteristic of oriental police...or military usage. How it got back into the US without importer stamps is (play the music again).

Ok, with apologies to Jimmy Buffett, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
[/
^ Typically I vote with Guy. I suspect the rear of the cylinder is an add-on similar to what is sometimes seen on restored .455 cylinders originally shaved to .45 ACP. It was thought in earlier times magnum cases needed the additional support. The bomb and P(for proof) are correct but either WB or GHD have been covered in the chicken script later added on. In the late 1940's through the 1960's an LAPD competitive shooter named "Fuzzy" Farrant popularized removing material from the front of the butt even to the point of altering the serial number and selling his own line of grips to fit. The front sight blade on that pre-1928 barrel should seem overly thin for the rear notch in the frame. The crane and frame do not match, the inside of the side plate should share the frame's assembly number. I'd look out of curiosity. An importer's mark was not required until 1968 . The requirement in those days was a country of origin stamp, already present.

The guns were plentiful through the 1960's and every atrocity imaginable was done to them. Save conversion to .22, yours is rather interesting. Welcome aboard
what do you make of the star 7 on the crane?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,716 Posts
The 7 is an inspector stamp. The partial star could be S&W service department's stamp as they used a star to show they worked on or replaced a part up until around 1980. But the yoke arm, cylinder and extractor rod were taken out of another gun and put into the Victory frame. The extractor rod was likely cut because it was binding the cylinder when docked with the locking bolt. The .357 cylinder is longer than the Victory's. That also may be why they used an older barrel. The shank was not as long as the Victory's so they didn't have to cut it down and fit it.

This is all speculation without having more information on who did it and why.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,179 Posts
Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Ben! I'm going to side with you against delcrossv. Fran's usually right but, in this case, I don't think your gun was ever plated. The Victories were never WWI guns...only WWII. However, the barrel was likely made closer to WWI than WWII as S&W quit making the two notch versions in 1928. So the barrel was replaced with an older barrel. The cylinder appears to be a much later magnum bored version. Does .357 magnum fully insert into the chambers? We can sorta guestimate when the cylinder was made by loosening the extractor rod. If it loosens turning left vs. right, it was made before 1961. You may have to put 3 empty cartridge casings in every other chamber and some padded pliers on the rod to check.

Now, play the Twilight Zone music. I think your gun may have been used in China or Japan. It appears to have Chinese or Japanese markings on the butt. Also, the rounded toe and heel and "plain clothes" mods to the grips are characteristic of oriental police...or military usage. How it got back into the US without importer stamps is (play the music again).

Ok, with apologies to Jimmy Buffett, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
Not disagreeing with you Guy, but I'll be damned if I know where those Ns came from. (???)
I will freely admit to my lack knowledge of Victory minutiae. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The 7 is an inspector stamp. The partial star could be S&W service department's stamp as they used a star to show they worked on or replaced a part up until around 1980. But the yoke arm, cylinder and extractor rod were taken out of another gun and put into the Victory frame. The extractor rod was likely cut because it was binding the cylinder when docked with the locking bolt. The .357 cylinder is longer than the Victory's. That also may be why they used an older barrel. The shank was not as long as the Victory's so they didn't have to cut it down and fit it.

This is all speculation without having more information on who did it and why.
Thank you for all of your knowledge. If I send off to Smith & Wesson for a letter, will that state if they were the ones to "reservice" the Revolver or will it only tell me the "birthdate" and who it was originally shipped to?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,179 Posts
Thank you for all of your knowledge. If I send off to Smith & Wesson for a letter, will that state if they were the ones to "reservice" the Revolver or will it only tell me the "birthdate" and who it was originally shipped to?
You'd have to make a request to the SWCA. Here's the link:
Factory Letter – Smith & Wesson Collectors Association

It'll give you the original ship to, if you want to look for service records, that's extra, but you need a letter first.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BenH.

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,716 Posts
It has been $100 for several years for non-SWCA or Historical Foundation members. That's just for the letter which will not tell you much except the date the frame shipped and where. S&W quit supporting the historian so they (HF) had to boost the price. Since we do not have a serial number on the cylinder (could be one behind the extractor star and on the rear of the yoke arm), can't tell when or where that one shipped to. Service records are stored by owner's name, not serial. It is unlikely the HF could find anything on any service work since we don't know who owned the cylinder assembly.

I'd stick to shooting it with lead round nose or wadcutter target .38 Special even if the cylinder is bored for .357 mag. That barrel may be old enough to be made before S&W made the shank into a forcing cone in 1922. If it is the least bit loose, a .357 mag bullet could slightly contact the shank and crack it or break off a piece. It should shoot fine enough otherwise to enjoy a day at the range with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BenH.
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top