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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A friend ran into a strange problem today. Shooting a 30-30 reload from a Pedersoli rolling block rifle. The bullets were shattering before reaching a 100 yard target, leaving the target papered with small shreds of lead. Two bullets made the full trip but had keyholed. I know this is not an S&W issue, but had hoped someone could give a clue for reloading.

Here‘s the load data he used:
Hornady 100 grain #3005
31 grains of IMR 3031
Trim 2.029
COL 2.435
2200 fps

30-30 Winchester

what I’m wondering if the load was over-running design limits, causing the bullet to spin too rapidly. No signs of over-pressure on the brass or. Primers.
Would appreciate any guidance
 

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I've seen videos of bullets shattering in mid-air. They were supposedly too fast for their designed use. They showed it in slow motion, as they just disintegrated before reaching the target.

Never had that happen that I know of. Seems bizarre that they just come apart in flight. I don't have a link to it, just a memory of seeing it.
 

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I have to ask, is that FPS speed actual as observed on an accurate chrono or is that the the recipe speed?

Pills explode (shatter) for a couple reasons and that is because either the rifling twist is too fast for the velocity or the velocity is too fast for the rifling. Either way, it's the rifling (twist rate) or the velocity or both. You can only spin a pill do and centrifugal force tears it apart (it explodes upon exiting the barrel).
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have to ask, is that FPS speed actual as observed on an accurate chrono or is that the the recipe speed?

Pills explode (shatter) for a couple reasons and that is because either the rifling twist is too fast for the velocity or the velocity is too fast for the rifling. Either way, it's the rifling (twist rate) or the velocity or both. You can only spin a pill do and centrifugal force tears it apart (it explodes upon exiting the barrel).
That FPS is from the load tables he was using. I’m going out with him and taking my chrono on Thursday so can give an update then.
thanks.
 

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Is that a short jacket bullet? I think it's a varmint round and its probably meant to break up, albeit not before it hits the intended target. I'm not sure if it was meant for the 30 Winchester, but you might try loading to a lower powder dump on the data sheet, it may not be cut out for 2,200 fps. I guess you could take a look at your barrel twist, that could have something to do with it as well if the ones that are making it to the target are keyholing.
 

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Actually, I can 'blow up' any bullet, any caliber, any weight. All I have to do is ignore the recommended twist rate and load them to the max and they will all come apart.

Maybe I shouldn't mention that I regularly load in the excess of SAMMI published data, sometimes way in the excess of that data but then I'm also jumping the bullet so seat depth for me is a 'sweet spot' attained somewhere between loaded to the lands and where the bullet groups the best at. Most rifles are incapable of chambering a round that is loaded to the lands except by a single load, unless the stock magazine well and follower has been replaced with a Wyatt Box.

My rule of thumb is, nothing over 3000 fps except 22-250 and then 33 max.

Once you pass 3000 fps in a conventional caliber, all you do is erode the throat (lands) which will degrade the grouping.

When I'm building a load for anything, any caliber, I'm always looking inside the barrel and chamber, paying close attention to how the pill is impacting them and the buildup of deposits in the tube. My Hawkeye bore scope is always out on the bench.

Why I use BTE only to clean a rifle tube and when building a load, I clean the tube every 4 shots. In fact, I use BTE on every firearm I own that sends FMJ's which is all of them but my muzzle loader.

Been doing this stuff a long time and as contrary as it is, I actually handload for 4 hunters that only shoot my gameloads and there are a lot of wall mounts that have come from those loads.

Doing a custom 260 Remington right now with a Brux Barrel and titanium EDM action with a Jewel Trigger and Wyatt box, fully bedded in a Kelly Macmillan carbon fiber stock with a Swarovski scope. It's shooting MOA at 200 yards but the owner wants one ragged hole at 200 and I believe the stick will do it. Just takes time, patience and the right tools.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Is that a short jacket bullet? I think it's a varmint round and its probably meant to break up, albeit not before it hits the intended target. I'm not sure if it was meant for the 30 Winchester, but you might try loading to a lower powder dump on the data sheet, it may not be cut out for 2,200 fps. I guess you could take a look at your barrel twist, that could have something to do with it as well if the ones that are making it to the target are keyholing.
No jacket, swaged lead.
 

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Perhaps the bullets are mislabelled..?? Here's the information directly from Hornady for the bullet you say is being used:
You can continue getting internet guesses, OR...gather the pertinent facts:
1. check to make sure this isn't a case of mis-labelling
2. determine the twist rate of the barrel
3. get some actual chrono numbers
With all that information in hand...call Hornady. Those folks are incredibly helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Some final data:
the bullet indicated, the short jacket 308 is correct.
actual chronograph showed about 2150 fps But I got 1 of 3 readings as ERR, suggesting that was no bullet there at 10 ft beyond muzzle.
the bullet is intended for m1 carbine so 2150 is likely seriously overdriving it
Hornady advised it likely the Pedersoli rolling block rifle was reamed and rifled to European specs rather than SAAMI and that could be a cause.
so for now we surrender and he will move up to a ballistic tip or fmj bullet until we can get a high speed slo mo camera to see what’s happening.
i appreciate all who shared their skull-sweat on this.
 
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