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It's not gouging if the market supports it. There is no such thing as "fair" price. There is only what the market will bear and what it will not bear. "Fair" is a word used by socialists.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly. I get such a kick out of it when people start taking this personally, just as soon as they can't buy something they want. The capitalist economic system runs on supply and demand. Period. That's it. That's all there is to it. Everything else is nothing but a bunch of smoke filled, coffee house crap. Right now everyone and their brother wants ammo, primers, and powder. They can't buy it, and when or if they can, the price is very high because everyone wants it.

If the government ran the economy, they would control distribution by having limits on purchases, and price controls. All so the lazy and unprepared could get their, "fair share". That's socialism / communism. And it's total B.S. Nothing more. We saw this type of thing happen before with guns and ammunition. Time and time again. After the Sandy Hook shooting, you couldn't buy .22 ammo for almost 5 years. People stood in line at Wal-Mart to buy it..... Then turn around and resell it at swap meets and gun shows. Or else they were hoarding it because they thought the world was going to end. Or some such nonsense. Guns flew off the shelves after Obama was elected in 2008.

Most people haven't learned a thing. Ammo, guns, and reloading components were available everywhere after Trump was elected. And for a long time afterward. Vendors were all overstocked to the rafters, because they, like most thought Hillary was going to walk into the White House. When she didn't, there were sales galore on EVERYTHING for several YEARS.

Today the very same people who passed on all of those deals, are the same one's who are b!tching now. I have zero sympathy for any / all of them. They had as much opportunity to stock up as anyone. But for whatever reason, they chose not to.... And now wish they had. As they say, you can wish in one hand, and crap in the other, and see which one fills up first.
 

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Looks like we struck a nerve with another gouger?
Please explain to me if I have something to sell, and the buyer willingly offers to pay my price, how I am "gouging" them? Because if I am, then everyone who trades on the New York Stock Exchange, or the NASDAQ is "price gouging". Because the entire object of their investing, is to make as much profit as humanly possibly, by selling their stocks for as much above what they paid for it.

All they need is a buyer. And that is governed by supply and demand...... Just like ammo. And you can live without stocks, just like you can live without ammo.... Assuming you don't want to pay the price it's trading at, because you think it's too much.

Do you honestly think people who bought Microsoft and Apple back in the 80's and 90's, should sell it to you now for what they paid for it back then? Because according to you, if they don't they're "gouging".
 

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Vista's customers are distributors who buy loaded ammo by the truckload, not Ronny Reloader and Neckbeard McArfshooter. Vista won't sell primers to distributors, only finished cartridges. That's how I read the letter. And they're doing that because that's where the demand and the money is. It's possible that the profit margin on thousand unit cases of primers was low enough that it wasn't worth it in this environment - PLUS - demand for finished cartridges far outweighs demand for components so they had to make a tough decision. How many people actually reload, as a percentage of all gun owners? A single digit percent? Sucks to be us; move on, get over it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
All of this is why I recommend patience with an overheated marketplace. The production facilities coming online are good for us because when the demand finally quiets down (as most of the millions of new gun owners stop buying ammunition, leaving their guns in dresser drawers) those plants will keep churning out products. Eventually, both ammunition and components will be in surplus again. Our military and police agencies probably represent steady demand except in times of war and general insurrection. The civilian marketplace generates the swings in demand for guns and ammunition based mostly on the propaganda that appears in media after highly publicized incidents.

If history is useful for predicting this marketplace, it will steadily grow with demand peaks occurring at unpredictable points, generally a few years apart. Watch for the quieter times and buy bulk components and ammunition then, keeping a stock on hand for the peaks.

Don't forget unconventional sources like the CMP. Years ago, they offered government contract Remington standard velocity .22LR for 2 cents a round. Knowing I'd never see that again, I bought enough to teach for years... I'm still using that cache of ammo for classes.
 
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Don't forget unconventional sources like the CMP. Years ago, they offered government contract Remington standard velocity .22LR for 2 cents a round. Knowing I'd never see that again, I bought enough to teach for years... I'm still using that cache of ammo for classes.
I'm doing much the same with Federal 550 Round Bulk Packs that I bought from Wal-Mart, back in the 90's for $8.88 a carton. Between my neighbor down the street, and myself, we all but filled the back of his S-10 with it. He passed away a couple of years later, and I ended up with most all of it. My wife will be selling what remains after I take a dirt nap. I remember that stuff sat on pallets for weeks in the Sporting Goods Department there, before they managed to sell it all off. No one wanted it at 1.6 cents a round back then. Today they would cut each others throats to get it at 4 times that price.

Much like stocks and real estate, the time to buy is when no one wants it, and they're telling you that you're a fool for buying it..... Not when they're running over each other, emptying their pockets to get it.

 

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Just because people are gorging on everything when it becomes available. Shouldn't give the retailers The right to
To run the pricing up like they are doing. And no there pricing from the factory has not been increased to them to justify the pricing they are asking. On Ammo,Reloading or FIFEARMS!
Once again: There is no "right" to raise prices. THE MARKET BEARS IT CURRENTLY.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?
 
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During the prior .22LR shortage... a particularly annoying Club member felt he needed to tell me how Benton Shooters was screwing their customers by pricing bricks of general plinking ammo at $60. So... I asked him why he didn't go to Walmart since they didn't raise their prices. He answered that Walmart shelves were always empty. Then I asked the guy if he would be happier if the shelves were empty at Benton. He got a puzzled look... which was the answer I expected.

Gentlemen, don't be 'that guy'.
 

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Luckily I joined this forum and learned about the 22 shortages. Sort of learned my lesson and worked on building a good supply of 9mm. Where did I do wrong? Well I wanted someday to get a S&W Sport II (or equivalent Ruger. Got the S&W) and I SHOULD have bought ammo for a gun I didn't own yet. Finally got it summer of 2020 when LGS opened back up and snagged it for $499. Bought 500 rounds for the OUTRAGEOUS price of $0.49 / rd. Should have been stocking up before I bought the gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Some informal analysis of 9mm prices through the Covid-19 pandemic:

 

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A lot of Covid vaccine worshipers right away start screaming and crying, and calling people, "conspiracy theorists" when they start talking about how the government is needlessly pushing this. Yet when you start seeing real world implications of all of this, it all starts to make sense. Covid is screwing up everything. And for no good reason. For the most part, it's all over with. Yet the liberals, along with the MSM keep pushing it every day. They don't want it to end. More, "variants". Now it's, "Booster Shots". More, "mask mandates". Next week it will be something else to keep it in the limelight. And they're all claiming this sewerage "vaccine" is the answer to everyone's prayers..... Just as soon as EVERYONE gets it.

It's all B.S. If you're that worried, go get it, and you can stop worrying about everyone who didn't. Instead, every day we're seeing more and more vaccinated people becoming infected. Hospitals are quickly becoming full of them. As a direct result we're now seeing shortages on everything most everywhere. Then we're told, (again by the same government who created this mess), It will all go away if everyone gets vaccinated. With each passing day, I am more and more satisfied I made the choice not to get this crap.

Much like, "climate change", Covid has become nothing more than a political power play and money grab. (Big pharma is making billions off of this whole fiasco). And prices are going through the roof on most everything from lumber to ammunition. And just about everything in between. And you cannot trust the numbers on Covid, anymore than you can trust them on, "climate change". Everything is being manipulated. Once something becomes as political, as both of these have, you can flush the "data" right down the drain with the toilet paper. They're both worth about the same.
 

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A lot of Covid vaccine worshipers right away start screaming and crying, and calling people, "conspiracy theorists" when they start talking about how the government is needlessly pushing this. Yet when you start seeing real world implications of all of this, it all starts to make sense. Covid is screwing up everything. And for no good reason. For the most part, it's all over with. Yet the liberals, along with the MSM keep pushing it every day. They don't want it to end. More, "variants". Now it's, "Booster Shots". More, "mask mandates". Next week it will be something else to keep it in the limelight. And they're all claiming this sewerage "vaccine" is the answer to everyone's prayers..... Just as soon as EVERYONE gets it.

It's all B.S. If you're that worried, go get it, and you can stop worrying about everyone who didn't. Instead, every day we're seeing more and more vaccinated people becoming infected. Hospitals are quickly becoming full of them. As a direct result we're now seeing shortages on everything most everywhere. Then we're told, (again by the same government who created this mess), It will all go away if everyone gets vaccinated. With each passing day, I am more and more satisfied I made the choice not to get this crap.

Much like, "climate change", Covid has become nothing more than a political power play and money grab. (Big pharma is making billions off of this whole fiasco). And prices are going through the roof on most everything from lumber to ammunition. And just about everything in between. And you cannot trust the numbers on Covid, anymore than you can trust them on, "climate change". Everything is being manipulated. Once something becomes as political, as both of these have, you can flush the "data" right down the drain with the toilet paper. They're both worth about the same.
And much like "climate change," China Virus is now a part of Mother Nature whether we like it or not. Just as no amount of ridiculous regulations or sending of tax money to our favorite politicians can change the climate, the same holds true for changing endemic viruses. We are going to have to learn to live with it. Non-hypochondriacs have already come to this realization. The Democrats and Viro-doomers are going to have to catch up sooner or later.

Alas, I'm sure 20 years from now there will be people wearing cloth masks in the hopes that it will ward off China Virus, just to quell their emotions. Kind of like the rain dances that the Indians used to do. Sad, but true.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
These are being used as "wedge issues" to divide the electorates in nations worldwide.

"Climate change" is the most effective way to divide older people from today's youth (under 35 years old). The young people are terrified that their global weather will destroy their world in their lifetime. Older people are confident that they will be gone before it affects them.

Younger people have not been taught scientific method with any degree of rigor, and so are more prone to accept the opinions of "experts" as if they were fact. If you were educated in the 1950's or 1960's, you are more skeptical, and tend to demand proof before making up your mind. The use of false prophet "experts" is how the tyrannical "elite" are now controlling youth worldwide.

But this varies from the thread discussion about the ammunition component shortage. That's real, and being driven by rational people that realize the cost of dividing a society.
 

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I've been thinking about buying a .32-40 rifle one of these months (when I can find a decent-condition one I can afford)... last week I found a set of .32-40 RCBS reloading dies at a LGS. I bought them, of course.
And I found one just over a week ago... it is now on layaway.

I have plenty of powder, primers, and 170gr lead-tipped roundnose bullets... but only 10 cases. Fortunately, I have found new .32-40 cases online in-stock, and they can also be made from .38-55 cases (.30-30/.32spcl also, but they will be .1" short and the bullet needs to be placed carefully).
 

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I've said this before and it is only my opinion, but I think these perennial ammo shortages are caused by the ammo industry's unwillingness to size the production capacity to contain any reserve capacity at all. The population is growing at a rate that is only going to make ammo shortages worse and more frequent.

I believe this unwillingness to keep up with market demand is the result of a 'wait and see' attitude by ammo producers' corporate boards. They don't want to get caught in the middle of investing in a new factory if (or when) the liberals manage to defeat the 2nd Amendment.
 

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I was buying Federal M855 5.56 green tip for $299/k from Palmetto with free shipping, and after Federal's $50 rebate the price was $249/k delivered. Fed 124gr RN 9mm practice ammo was $149/k delivered after rebate. I couldn't reload it for much less. Places like Sportsman Warehouse were running out of floor space to put pallets of ammo that no one was buying.

So... I'm not sure how much we could have expected ammo manufactures to ramp up production "just in case" when they were having to offer rebates to motivate people to buy ammo that was already stacked to the ceiling.
 

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How's the supply been lately? Still got those rebates going? So all those shortages of .22 ammo, primers, powder, brass and loaded ammo in the past were just...what?
 

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How's the supply been lately? Still got those rebates going? So all those shortages of .22 ammo, primers, powder, brass and loaded ammo in the past were just...what?
What were they? They were lessons to be learned.

New shooters and those of limited economic means have an excuse to gripe about tight ammo/supplies and high prices. However, folks who have been around guns for a while and do a lot of shooting have seen these politically-driven panic-buying cycles resulting in shortages before. They've had ample time to learn and prepare so as to not suffer through them but rather continue to enjoy shooting through them.

Back on point... Trying to place blame on manufactures who were begging consumers to buy ammo before the panic-buying began is hardly a solution to anything. There will be a shift in political winds. Panic-buying will subside. Ammo/supplies will be plentiful again. The question is... will the lesson be learned?
 

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Hope you're right...............
 
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