Smith And Wesson Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Guys (and gals), I've shot Smiths since I was a young cop and that's been a long time ago (1957 through 1979). We knew them as Combat Masterpieces, Highway Patrolman, Chiefs Special, stuff like that. So what the hell is a pinned barrel v. a non-pinned barrel, and what does "dash" mean? I own a Model 60 Stainless j-frame w/1 7/8" barrel and am considering trading it for a Model 60 Stainless .357 3" barrel NIB. But this pinned barrel and dash stuff mystifies me. I looked at my barrel where it fits into the frame and there is no pin I can see, so maybe it's not a pinned model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,677 Posts
In 1982 smith and wesson stopped pinning there barrels and recessing there cylinders.The pinned barrels screwed in and had a small pin to keep them in place. The cylinders were recesssed where the rim of the caseing would be flush with the rear of the cylinder face. Both of these things were costly to do and were dropped for pressed in barrels and the rims on ammo had long become a lot stronger and the recess was no longer needed.
The names for the revolvers were replaced with model numbers in 1957. Like the high way patrol became the model 28 etc.Once the new model numbers were assighned if smith and wesson changed or dropped some thing on the gun they would had a dash number for the change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,218 Posts
Hi jeremiahjj.

Welcome to the forum. welcome01
S&W always named their guns in various ways but in 1957 or so someone there decided that the guns should be numbered and the M&P became the model 10, the Chief Special became a model 36 and the airweight chief special became a model 37 and so on. The dash numbers are engineering changes but that is not always done consistantly. ie the M&P model 10 went through a lot of dash numbers because they used a dash - number for the light barrel and another for the heavy barrel. The above mentioned model 36 did not become a dash one 36-1 until the 3" heavy barrel was introduced in 1967 but S&W sold both the straight model 36 (2") and the Model 36-1 until 1988 when the new yoke design made them the 36-2 and 36-3. By that time the Model 10s had reached model 10-9 and model 10-10 Around 1982 S&W stopped using the pin across the top of the threads on the barrel through the frame to lock the barrel in place. thus the pinned / not pinned barrel. they also stopped counter boring the cylinder and ejector on magnum revolvers at that time. Thus the Recessed / Not Recessed designations. The only way I can keep them straight is have the "STANDART CATALOG OF SMITH & WESSON" by Jim Supica & Richard Nahas close at hand. ($40 or less at all the book dealers) If you have a specific question there is always someone able to look it up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks, Jim and onenut58, that helps a lot. I am guessing my 60 is not pinned. Or at least I don't see a pin anywhere. The barrel "flows" right into the frame. However, it's a standard-shaped cylinder release, not one of the ones that's angled on the top. I could contact S&W and get a manufacture date, which I probably should do. I also have a 36 blued that was given to me by the FOP when I retired. E.C. "Jack" Prudhomme, master gun engraver, put my name, rank, retirement year (1979) and FOP on the side of the frame. It's a keepsake, obviously, and not for sale. Who wants a gun with somebody else's name on it? Well, I might if it was somebody famous, but then it would have value for the name and not the gun. Thanks, guys, for the help and welcome.

Jere Joiner
Divide, Colo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,921 Posts
If you give the serial number {with a few Xs in plce of the last few numbers} one of us could give you a guesstimate on mfg. date.
Welcome to the forum
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,055 Posts
onenut58 said:
The cylinders were recesssed where the rim of the caseing would be flush with the rear of the cylinder face......... the rims on ammo had long become a lot stronger and the recess was no longer needed.
I'll be darned, I always thought the recess was for moonclips. I've got a Colt Peacekeeper that has a recessed cylinder. Learn somethin' new every day. :D

And jeremiahjj, I'm bettin' we'd all love to see some pictures! ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
azmick said:
If you give the serial number {with a few Xs in plce of the last few numbers} one of us could give you a guesstimate on mfg. date.
Welcome to the forum
Serial number is AYN2xxx. And thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
LeMat said:
onenut58 said:
The cylinders were recesssed where the rim of the caseing would be flush with the rear of the cylinder face......... the rims on ammo had long become a lot stronger and the recess was no longer needed.
I'll be darned, I always thought the recess was for moonclips. I've got a Colt Peacekeeper that has a recessed cylinder. Learn somethin' new every day. :D

And jeremiahjj, I'm bettin' we'd all love to see some pictures! ;)
Aw, it's just a standard stainless 60 w/a 1 7/8" barrel. Must be a million of 'em out there. However, I do have Pachmayrs on it. I also bobbed the hammer because it's my inside-the-pocket carry piece. Some people might not like the idea of a bobbed hammer, but it works for me. I don't shoot it anymore because, hey, it's for self-defense and not target shooting. If I sold it I'd probably put a regular hammer back in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
One of my real concerns is whether my older Model 60 SS is better quality than, say, a new Model 60 stainless. Or are they pretty much the same? Forget the scandium and air weights. I'm talking about solid stainless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Gizamo said:
jerahmiahjj,

First and foremost...Welcome to the Forum.. :)

Here is a link to a website that does a pretty good job of listing all the S&W named guns and model numbered guns. It also lists the various dash engineering changes and lists each change. It's a great reference....

http://www.handloads.com/misc/Smith.Model.Changes.asp

giz
A super web page, and thanks! I noticed the Model 60 SS .357 wasn't mentioned. Any idea when it was introduced?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,368 Posts
jerahmiahjj - Firstly - a warm welcome to the forum!! kfjdrfirii
I'm going to attach a couple of pics to show what a pinned barrel looks like and the recessed cylinder as well. The pin is about 3/8" behind where the barrel attaches to the main body on the backstrap just in front of the cylinder.



The cylinder is recessed to where the casings are completely "recessed" into the cylinder.
I guess the purpose was to prevent the casing seats from blowing out from the higher pressure magnum loads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
gearchecker said:
jerahmiahjj - Firstly - a warm welcome to the forum!! kfjdrfirii
I'm going to attach a couple of pics to show what a pinned barrel looks like and the recessed cylinder as well. The pin is about 3/8" behind where the barrel attaches to the main body on the backstrap just in front of the cylinder.



The cylinder is recessed to where the casings are completely "recessed" into the cylinder.
I guess the purpose was to prevent the casing seats from blowing out from the higher pressure magnum loads.
That is perfect! A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. Mine definitely is not pinned, nor are the cylinders recessed. I was considering trading it for a NIB Model 60 .357 (mine is a .38). But I looked at 'em side by side, and the new 60 had that silly lock on it. I thought -- I don't think so. It just didn't look right. I'm OK with a firing pin (shades of the Colt Python!) but not a lock. Thanks again, gearchecker!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,377 Posts
Welcome aboard!! First the recessed cylinders were only done on the magnum calibers and .22lr. After SW stopped recessing the cylinders on the magnum calibers, they still recess on the .22lr's. Since we are talking J-frames, and if it was me, I wouldn't make the trade, but keep the .38spl 60. When you start getting down that small in size there are to me more negatives than positives between the .38spl and .357mag. More positive towards the .38spl.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Leighton said:
Welcome aboard!! First the recessed cylinders were only done on the magnum calibers and .22lr. After SW stopped recessing the cylinders on the magnum calibers, they still recess on the .22lr's. Since we are talking J-frames, and if it was me, I wouldn't make the trade, but keep the .38spl 60. When you start getting down that small in size there are to me more negatives than positives between the .38spl and .357mag. More positive towards the .38spl.
Glad to hear you say that, Leighton, because that's exactly what I did. Just couldn't give up that little .38 of mine. Besides, I had used a buffing wheel and jewelers rouge on it and it was truly beautiful. Besides, +P+ 38s are potent enough and the SS cylinder/barrel should take 'em fine as long as the stronger rounds aren't shot routinely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,121 Posts
A hearty welcome to you, jeremiahjj ! welcome01
The 'recessed-vs-non-recessed' deal surfaces every so often, but there's some other history you need to also hear:
The recessed charge-holes were initially designed for the more fragile (and less-stable) RIMfire .22 cartridge.
There was a very real danger of a primered rim blowing from time to time.
Was the recessed cylinder necessary on the .357 Magnum?
Sure...just like the third lock was necessary on the Triplelock. nfiofnp
Great machining, great merchandising...
Pinned barrels?
Look over the Colt line some time and report back with the number of pinned barrels you find... kljng; kljng;
Anyway, Smith & Wesson builds great revolvers.
But they're a business, and there to make money.
As a final point, compare the early, pre-1982 .44 Magnums (and M-29's) to the newer, non-pinned, non-recessed models.
Guess which one is stronger... ;)
Hope you enjoy the forum!
Don
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for that, Mr. Henry. My first LEO purchase (1957) was a Colt. That was because I didn't know any better (and instinctively seemed to know the cylinder rotated the wrong way). Not that Colts aren't good guns -- they are, especially the Python. But I didn't have a Python and it didn't take long for me to realize that 95 percent of my fellow officers carried Smiths. That was my last Colt and from then on out it was Combat Magnums for the rest of my career (well, I did carry a 1911 in Condition One for awhile but got tired of people telling me the hammer was cocked). So no, I can't say whether Colts are pinned or not. My Model 60 SS .38 spl definitely isn't. And I will not switch it for a Model 60 .357 with that silly lock on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Forester said:
Sir, your Model 60 was made in 1987, If I am reading the book correctly.
I appreciate that very much, and thanks for the information. The 60 looks as good today as it did 22 years ago. And it's not going anywhere (except in my pocket maybe).
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top