Smith And Wesson Forums banner
21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Well I'm just about ready to get started. I still need a brass tumbler and I'll produce my own reloading blocks form some scrap qak lumber I have ( tomorrow ). I'm going to start with 45-70 and Unique. I understand that large rifle or pistol primer will work. I have to dig out a goose neck lamp and get it set up. Pictures to follow!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,809 Posts
Hey Charlie,

Sounds like a plan....

You may not have the firing pin reach to use the pistol primer??

Pistol primers are .020" shallower than rifle primers.

Some rifles? No problem.. Others? not so much...

Later, Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,201 Posts
Varnish is a much better option. Paint will look sooo dirty after awhile.especially white.
Mine is Gray, ...congrats on new bench I doubled up on 3/4” plywood about six inches from front and glued and screwed. No shakey presses here.


Thewelshm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Hey Charlie,

Sounds like a plan....

You may not have the firing pin reach to use the pistol primer??

Pistol primers are .020" shallower than rifle primers.

Some rifles? No problem.. Others? not so much...

Later, Mark
I will be using a 1885 Browning. On your experience I'll use the rifle primer. Thanks for the heads up on that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,809 Posts
Hey Charlie,

Just check and see how far out the firing pin protrudes from the bolt face....??

(or load one with just a primer...make sure you clean the barrel good after...)

I use either 13.7gr Universal or 15.0 of HS 6. and the Fed 210 handles ignition chores very well. (have shot better than I thought I could) LOL

My buddy has a good bit of Unique and he loads 13.5gr of Unique. Pretty sure he uses the WLR..(he loads several .30 caliber rounds)

The cup on a rifle primer is thicker/stronger than a pistol primer....in addition to being about .020" "taller" than a pistol primer...

Hope this helps....

Later, Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Yeah, if you do use pistol primers and start getting light strikes, replace the firing pin with an extended pin. I ran into this with my 460 S&W. 460 takes a large rifle, 45 Colt does not. In addition, I use both when loading 460. Cost me like $4 for an extended firing pin. Your mileage may vary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,741 Posts
Hey Mark... I thought that the different dimensions in primer depth applied only to the large primers. Been using small rifle and pistol interchangeably for my handgun reloading without any issues of protruding primers or FTF because of hard primer cups (I bought into a windfall of small rifle primers last year).

Had issues with FTF and blown primers when using large pistol primers a while back in my 45-70 and 50-70 loads. Part of the problem was the oversized firing pins on a couple of my older single shots, especially my trapdoor carbine. I've found that magnum large rifle primers give the most consistent accuracy in my large straight walled rifle cases, especially when using Unique without wadding.

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,809 Posts
Hey John,

The small pistol & rifle primers are the same "height".

A lot of 38 Super shooters would use small rifle primers in their 1911 "Race Guns" as the cup is tougher...to make MAJOR POWER FACTOR.

Large rifle primers are .020" "taller" than Large pistol primers...

The cup is also "tougher" as most pistol rounds operate at 20,000psi, and most rifles in excess of 50,000 (I know, there are exceptions)


Most DA revolvers will not "set" a rifle primer in DA mode...

The issue you describe could well be exacerbated by the fact the pistol primer has .020" to "flow" about the firing pin on firing...??

Appreciate the dialog...as of right now? To my knowledge (spoke with any number of Competitors last weekend, from all over these United States), the very soonest we can expect primers (and BOY do I HOPE I am WRONG!!) for the reloader? Will be in '23! Expected price? In excess of $125/1,000!!) :mad:

My advice? Husband one's supplies...and like you...look for viable alternatives...:mad:

If a fellow had a 1911 type firearm (in 9mm or 38 Super) and an AR type firearm, he could well use Small Rifle Primers in both....

Later, Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Just about set up. I had to stop building the set up for a few days so I finished it up today. Got the Magnafication lamp up and all the electric done. Press mounted and now just tiddy up a bit and I'm rockin some ammo. Still have to go out to the shop and make a few reloading blocks then I'm in business!
Shelving Wood Floor Shipping box Flooring
Shelving Wood Floor Shipping box Flooring
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
Well after several false starts I got started today. Got new brass lubed and ready to go thru the resizing die. I'm only going to load up 12 for a start. Have'nt decided on Trail Boss or Unique yet. Leaning toward Unique. According to what I've read 13gr. will do just fine. I'll get to the range hopefully on Tuesday. I start with some Federal 300gr jhp and when the barrel gets dirty I'll go to my reloads 405 cast. Any input on my powder load will be appreciated.

Well I got motivated and lubed and sized 100 pcs. new Starline brass. Enough for tonight...Tomorrow is another day. Takin my time...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Idk where the Unique load came from but if it’s 45-70, it’s not in any manual I have and there is no load from the powder manufacturer. I don’t know how proficient you are with your loading skills but I’d strongly advise not taking load data off Internet forums unless there is a reputable source backing that data up. Unique, while I have used it in pistol cartridges that I’ve fired from lever guns, is not intended for rifles. It’s fairly fast burning so that in general means big pressure up from and losing steam before it gets to the end of the barrel.

If you aren’t very seasoned at reloading, I’d stick to what’s in the books. Just my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
The rifle in question is a Browning 1885 and is on par with the Ruger #1 & #3. The load info comes from a reliable source that I trust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,809 Posts
Idk where the Unique load came from but if it’s 45-70, it’s not in any manual I have and there is no load from the powder manufacturer. I don’t know how proficient you are with your loading skills but I’d strongly advise not taking load data off Internet forums unless there is a reputable source backing that data up. Unique, while I have used it in pistol cartridges that I’ve fired from lever guns, is not intended for rifles. It’s fairly fast burning so that in general means big pressure up from and losing steam before it gets to the end of the barrel.

If you aren’t very seasoned at reloading, I’d stick to what’s in the books. Just my 2 cents.
Hey 11,

Old Lyman, Belding & Mull and Sharp Manuals all listed 13.5gr of Unique under a 405gr cast bullets. (pretty sure the first few RCBS Manuals so did?)

For your perusal.... Lever Gun Performance Studies

I mostly use 15.0gr of HS 6 (I had a lot of it) and 13.7gr UNIVERSAL in my 1895CB....1070 to 1100fps...NO RECOIL! Smacks the 200yd dinger nicely...

Later, Mark
 
  • Like
Reactions: Charlie686

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Here is the first round from my press. I used the Lee factory crimp die. OAL is 2.310 so I assume since it is shorter than the Max Length of 2.550 is ok? The crimp is very light but since I'll be using these rounds in a single shot rifle should be good? Opinions please.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,809 Posts
Hey Charlie,

Depends?? LOL

With cast bullets, one is USUALLY constrained by the crimp groove. Where the crimp groove is, crimp one must.

Now...With the Redding Profile Crimp Die, one can crimp at most any "FULL DIAMETER LOCATION" on the bullet. On the front driving band, betwixt grease grooves..

The Lee FCD may/may not size your cast bullet down to "under size" which adversely affects accuracy...

The Lee FCD will also permit "non conventional" cast bullet crimp locations...

Your accuracy may/may not suffer due to excessive bullet "jump"....Most hunting rifles benefit from about .012" of "jump"...YMMV...

It is my understanding that the Browning uses the "small diameter" (.457" or .458") bullets....The Lee FCD should not touch them? (my 1895CB prefers the .460")

You can have hours of FUN by varying the seating depth....some rifles? have a "sweet spot". Others? Shoot what ever you feed them! LOL

Later, Mark
 
  • Like
Reactions: Charlie686

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Hey Charlie,

Depends?? LOL

With cast bullets, one is USUALLY constrained by the crimp groove. Where the crimp groove is, crimp one must.

Now...With the Redding Profile Crimp Die, one can crimp at most any "FULL DIAMETER LOCATION" on the bullet. On the front driving band, betwixt grease grooves..

The Lee FCD may/may not size your cast bullet down to "under size" which adversely affects accuracy...

The Lee FCD will also permit "non conventional" cast bullet crimp locations...

Your accuracy may/may not suffer due to excessive bullet "jump"....Most hunting rifles benefit from about .012" of "jump"...YMMV...

It is my understanding that the Browning uses the "small diameter" (.457" or .458") bullets....The Lee FCD should not touch them? (my 1895CB prefers the .460")

You can have hours of FUN by varying the seating depth....some rifles? have a "sweet spot". Others? Shoot what ever you feed them! LOL

Later, Mark
The round in the picture is a Dummy round. On your advise I will not crimp the rounds that will be fired in my 1885 Browning . My question s are...Will the Redding die you reccomended work with a Lee Breech Lock Press and how is can the chamber depth be measured?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,809 Posts
Hey Charlie,

What I do? I simply make up a dummy round, a "tad" long....with NO CRIMP. (no powder or primer...don't want powder all over if the round comes apart) LOL (ask me how I know!)ROTFLMAO!!

Paint it with a MAGIC MARKER or (lipstick works good)....up around the front driving band.

Try to insert it. Keep seating it deeper until it seats.

As I said, with cast bullets, one usually wants to crimp in the crimp groove (that way, if your pal comes with his lever gun....no need to worry about rounds coming apart)...

Not sure if Redding still makes that die. When I got it (oh so long ago) I was shooting both cast & jacketed in the 45/70, and with a simple adjustment, could crimp either type of bullet well.

If we were closer, have you fixed up in a jiffy!

Later, Mark
 
  • Like
Reactions: Charlie686

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Mark, Thanks for the quick response. I'll try the looong dummy round and I guess I'll try to contact Redding about the die.
Regards,
Charlie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,809 Posts
Mark, Thanks for the quick response. I'll try the looong dummy round and I guess I'll try to contact Redding about the die.
Regards,
Charlie
Hey Charlie,

I ordered a 9mm & 44 die set from Dillon last year.

Called them last week? Week before?

They told me the soonest I may see either die set? Next April!

With that High Wall, you most likely do not need to crimp.

It will let you know.....As there is very little "force" on seating , (as opposed to the 100lb+ in a bolt rifle)....

I would start ....with the bullet seated to the crimp groove.....(most mold makers make the molds to fit "most" rifles....)

Seat the bullet just "below" the "top" of the crimp groove.....

Paint it up...see if it seats...??

Unlike others, I've not had success with bullets touching the rifling. Most of mine seem to "like" to be .009" to .015" shy of the lands for best accuracy....(I've tried all the laborious stuff, neck turning/truing...etc except for trimming to uniform length, uniforming primer pockets & flash holes...the "extra effort" was of marginal worth ...in my rifles)

I like to full length size...as one rifle in one's battery ALWAYS has a larger chamber.....LOL and another has a SMALLER chamber....LOL

Later, Mark
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top