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Well, I'm a bit disappointed. The big M&P-10 Sport didn't want to cooperate with me last night at the range.

Field-stripped and cleaned (not an extreme, thorough cleaning, I admit, because it wasn't dirty - just got most of the preservative oil off, that was on it). The patch I ran through the barrel did come out with some carbon, so, I reckon they test-fired it before leaving the factory. Lubed with synthetic motor oil (I think it was some Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 I had left over from the car - I honestly can't remember, because I keep it in a syringe. The only other thing it could be is the M1-EP 5W-30 I use in the truck. Anyway, I thought I'd lubed it pretty generously. More on that later...

Got to the range, put the scope on, and started shooting with some Federal XM80C (149g, 7.62x51mm). It was grouping well at 25 yards - definitely under 2" - then it jammed.



What it did to the case of the cartridge. It also set the bullet back in the case a hair.



Had to remove mag to clear the jam.

Got it cleared, chambered another round, fired, pulled trigger again, CLICK. Removed mag and looked. Bolt had failed to strip a fresh round from the magazine. And I could see score marks across the top of the cartridge case, where, presumably, the bolt rode over top of the round and scratched it:



It did this kind of thing a few more times, and, once, I couldn't even pull the charging handle back without removing the mag and pulling really hard. So, I decided to take it upstairs and let one of the old guys who works there look at it. We field-stripped it and he said everything looked OK, but that maybe it needed more lube. He handed me some CLP called "Clenzoil", I think (it was pretty thin stuff). We lubed everything generously.

Took it back down to the range and tried again with some different ammo - this time, Aguila 150g 7.62x51mm. Same problems. FTFs.

At this point I didn't want to mess with it anymore, so I got my Dan Wesson Heritage 1911 out. That saved my range trip - I love that pistol. Never a single malfuction.

Right now, the plan is to clean and lube again, even though it's pretty wet at the moment and only has about 15 rounds, or less, through it, and see if I can get my hands on a couple of different magazines to try. I also have a box of Federal .308 180g hunting rounds. Those should be a little hotter than that milsurp 7.62 stuff. So I'll try that. But, IMO, this thing should handle 7.62 NATO stuff just fine.

I'm also going to call Smith & Wesson tomorrow and let them know what happened and see if they've been hearing of this kind of thing, with these rifles, because I know they've sold a bunch of them. Also going to ask them if they'll send me a different mag. It came with one 20-round PMAG. Those are usually GTG, so, I dunno.

I haven't had a single malfunction with my Colt 6920. But, then, it's a different animal.
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Fast-Forward to 2nd range trip:

Just returned home from my 2nd trip to the range with the M&P-10.

Before I went back to the range, I thoroughly cleaned and lubricated the rifle (it wasn't that dirty; I'd only shot 30 or so rounds on the 1st trip). I also purchased a 2nd magazine (also a PMAG; this time, a 10-rounder).

When I got to the range, wanting to eliminate the magazine and any cleanliness/lubrication issues, I started off with the same ammunition I'd used in my 1st trip - Federal XM80C 149g 7.62x51mm. I'd previously identified this as Lake City ball. That was incorrect; this ammo has "FC" stamped on the case instead of the "LC" of Lake City.

I got exactly the same malfunctions as last time. The rifle made it through 6 or 7 rounds, then experienced a FTF jam with the round in the same position as in my photos earlier in the thread. The charging handle was also very hard to pull to the aft position after I removed the magazine.

Having eliminated cleanliness/lubrication as a potential cause, my next step was to try a different magazine. I inserted the 10-rd PMAG and chambered a round. I fired a round, and the rifle jammed, again, with the round in the same orientation. I cleared that jam, chambered the next round, and pulled the trigger. Same result. Now it was clear that this was not magazine-related.

Next, I loaded a full 20-round mag of the Federal PowerShok 180g .308 and chambered a round. The rifle fired all 20 rounds without a hiccup, and locked the bolt open after the last round. This was the first full magazine I've been able to get through with the M&P-10.

Hoping that the rifle just needed some "breaking in", I next loaded 18 or 19 rounds of Aguila 150g 7.62x51mm (I'd fired a couple of rounds of it the other day), chambered a round, and pulled the trigger. The rifle fired but failed to chamber the next round. On removing the magazine and inspecting the next round, it had the same score marks across the top as before, indicating that the bolt had made contact with it, but failed to strip it from the magazine and load it. Tried a few more times with the Aguila, with similar results.

Next, I decided to try the box of Tula steel-cased 150g .308 ammunition I'd bought. I loaded 10 rounds into the 10-round magazine, and the other 10 rounds into the 20-round magazine. The ammo worked flawlessly in the gun from both magazines, and the bolt locked open after I fired the last round from each mag. Incidentally, that Tula must not be flash-suppressed whatsoever, as every shot produced a giant fireball that completely obscured my view through the scope, momentarily!

So, in summary, the rifle worked perfectly with both types (I did only have 40 rounds) of .308 ammunition, and has failed to work with any of the 3 different types (albeit similar) of 7.62x51mm ammo (Federal XM80C 149g, Lake City M80 ball 147g, Aguila 150g).

On the way home from the range, I called Smith & Wesson again and talked to another rep, and asked what kind of ammo they used to test-fire the rifles at the factory. He responded that .308 ammo is used. So, that explains a lot. I asked if the rifle should fire both .308 and 7.62, and he replied that it should, in his opinion. The rifle is chambered in .308 Winchester, which is stamped on the barrel, but, in the owner's manual, 7.62x51mm is listed as an alternative caliber.

So, I've decided to send the rifle back to the factory with a description of the problems, and ask that they do what it takes to get the rifle to run with 7.62x51mm ammo.

Just got an email that they've received the rifle, so, we'll see what happens. I'll post up the results here.
 

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ALWAYS detail clean any new firearm or you will have FTF & FTE issues. Clean the chamber and barrel real good as well as the bolt carrier group with Hoppe's spray cleaner. Then lube the BCG. Dry patches in the barrel....THEN shoot the galldang thang! fwiw
 

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Discussion Starter #4
ALWAYS detail clean any new firearm or you will have FTF & FTE issues. Clean the chamber and barrel real good as well as the bolt carrier group with Hoppe's spray cleaner. Then lube the BCG. Dry patches in the barrel....THEN shoot the galldang thang! fwiw
Always good advice. However, as I mentioned, I ruled out cleanliness/lubrication as causative factors.
 

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I just received mine back from S&W having similar issues albeit mine were with anything I put in. I did manage to shoot 80rds of Tula steel cased .308 ammo without a single FTE or FTF which is a great improvement. I will try to shoot some NATO ammo tonight. On mine, the paperwork seemed to indicate that the bolt was replaced as well as the "upper assembly" whatever that means. The parts do look brand new. I dont seem to remember the type of bolt that was there from the factory. The one currently in mine is chalky black on its finish appearance.
Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I just received mine back from S&W having similar issues albeit mine were with anything I put in. I did manage to shoot 80rds of Tula steel cased .308 ammo without a single FTE or FTF which is a great improvement. I will try to shoot some NATO ammo tonight. On mine, the paperwork seemed to indicate that the bolt was replaced as well as the "upper assembly" whatever that means. The parts do look brand new. I dont seem to remember the type of bolt that was there from the factory. The one currently in mine is chalky black on its finish appearance.
Good luck.

I just got mine back from them yesterday, but had to immediately leave town, so, I haven’t had the chance to really look it over.
I have to say, though, I’m disappointed in the lack of detail in the repair slip. All it says is, “Repaired upper assembly” and “polished barrel/chamber”.

You can see why I’m disappointed, as I provided them a very detailed, typewritten letter, explaining the problems. I was really hoping for a detailed explanation of the work they did. They also left polishing cloth residue stuck to the chamber lugs.

Going by the repair slip, no parts were replaced.

I’ll have to take it to the range to know for sure, but I’m not confident.

I’ll probably call today and try to get more detail.

Interesting that yours functioned with Tula .308 WIN ammo. I had a 20-rd box of that, and my M&P-10 Sport worked flawlessly with it. That stuff has one helluva muzzle flash!
 

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I just got mine back from them yesterday, but had to immediately leave town, so, I haven’t had the chance to really look it over.
I have to say, though, I’m disappointed in the lack of detail in the repair slip. All it says is, “Repaired upper assembly” and “polished barrel/chamber”.

You can see why I’m disappointed, as I provided them a very detailed, typewritten letter, explaining the problems. I was really hoping for a detailed explanation of the work they did. They also left polishing cloth residue stuck to the chamber lugs.

Going by the repair slip, no parts were replaced.

I’ll have to take it to the range to know for sure, but I’m not confident.

I’ll probably call today and try to get more detail.

Interesting that yours functioned with Tula .308 WIN ammo. I had a 20-rd box of that, and my M&P-10 Sport worked flawlessly with it. That stuff has one helluva muzzle flash!
Sorry you did not get to try it. I know the feeling. I will be leaving work soon and will stop by the local store and pick a box of nato ammo and try it. I agree with you that they lack a touch with the repair slip. While in mine it is evident that parts were replaced, no indication on the parts list records that. I wonder why that is, I bet they are swamped as well, who knows. I hope yours works, I could not see any other difference on mine sans the replaced parts. I bought mine in 2014 and had been doing this since new, just recently I got to return it to them since I want to shoot .308. So far so good with the Tula, cant wait to try NATO and yes, there is a large flash using the TuLA and a hell of a kick. Here in MA, we dont get compensators or flash hiders on the gun, it is just a straight barrel LOL, I could see the flash through the scope.
Good deal and good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sorry you did not get to try it. I know the feeling. I will be leaving work soon and will stop by the local store and pick a box of nato ammo and try it. I agree with you that they lack a touch with the repair slip. While in mine it is evident that parts were replaced, no indication on the parts list records that. I wonder why that is, I bet they are swamped as well, who knows. I hope yours works, I could not see any other difference on mine sans the replaced parts. I bought mine in 2014 and had been doing this since new, just recently I got to return it to them since I want to shoot .308. So far so good with the Tula, cant wait to try NATO and yes, there is a large flash using the TuLA and a hell of a kick. Here in MA, we dont get compensators or flash hiders on the gun, it is just a straight barrel LOL, I could see the flash through the scope.
Good deal and good luck.
Yep, shooting that Tula, the flash completely obscured my view through the scope for a moment.

Let us know how it works. I’ll update this thread with my findings when I’m able to get to the range.
 

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Well, I purchased two boxes of 7.62x51 and they all went without a problem. All of them operated as they should have. No FTF or FTEs. I was very happy. By the time I was done, that barrel was very very hot LOL. I hope you get similar results. The flash on these was not as pronounced as with the Tula LOL.
Good luck.
 

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Well, I purchased two boxes of 7.62x51 and they all went without a problem. All of them operated as they should have. No FTF or FTEs. I was very happy. By the time I was done, that barrel was very very hot LOL. I hope you get similar results. The flash on these was not as pronounced as with the Tula LOL.
Good luck.
Man, that’s great to hear.

So, just to confirm, yours is the standard M&P-10, with the 18” barrel, correct?
 

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Man, that’s great to hear.

So, just to confirm, yours is the standard M&P-10, with the 18” barrel, correct?

Yes, mine is the standard one. Mine has no compensator or flash hider either. I purchased it back in 2014 and had been doing that since new. I am a happy camper. Its actually a lot of fun to shoot :)
 

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I purchased an M&P 10 Sport and on first range trip did the same thing. I'm going to give it one more try and if it fails me again call Smith and have it sent back

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I purchased an M&P 10 Sport and on first range trip did the same thing. I'm going to give it one more try and if it fails me again call Smith and have it sent back

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That sucks. One thing I wish I’d done with mine before sending it back, is to shoot a couple hundred rounds of .308 through it (because .308 feeds just fine), to give it a good break-in, then try 7.62 NATO again.

I’ve received mine back from S&W, but haven’t had a chance to get it back to the range and test.
 

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That sucks. One thing I wish I’d done with mine before sending it back, is to shoot a couple hundred rounds of .308 through it (because .308 feeds just fine), to give it a good break-in, then try 7.62 NATO again.

I’ve received mine back from S&W, but haven’t had a chance to get it back to the range and test.
I have a ton of Federal 7.62X51 and shoot it with my SCAR 17 and it chomps thru it all day long. I may bite the bullet and buy a few hundred rounds of .308 and go from there. My concern is a good cleaning and lubing is not going to do the trick since hearing and reading failure testimonies of the M&P 10 shooting with 7.62X51 appears to be consistent

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.308 and 7.62X51 are different enough that if by chance you have a chamber that's on the minimum side of the chamber spesc can certainly cause some feed issues.
But not feeding from the mag is probably either a sloppy mag lock, letting the mag set below the correct feed line of the bolt, a bad magazine spring, or possibly a sloppy bolt/carrier (not very likely). The cartridges aren't even making it to the chamber by your description, so it's probably not a chamber issue.

If it was me, I'd spray some dry lube into the mags you have to slick them up a little, load and unload them a few times to get the lubricant evened out inside the mag, and see if the feed issues stop. Part of the clues to your problem is that it feeds Tula ammo okay, but not your brass cartridges.
The Tula ammo has a lacquer coating, and they may just slip off each other better than a straight brass cartridge would.
Lastly, beg or borrow some different brands of magazines from your friends or the range to eliminate the possibility that your issue is being caused by the magazines you currently have.
I much prefer steel magazines in my AR10 over the plastic ones.

Please let us know if this feed issue continues, or if they resolved the issues for you.

Regards,
Gregory
 

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.308 and 7.62X51 are different enough that if by chance you have a chamber that's on the minimum side of the chamber spesc can certainly cause some feed issues.
But not feeding from the mag is probably either a sloppy mag lock, letting the mag set below the correct feed line of the bolt, a bad magazine spring, or possibly a sloppy bolt/carrier (not very likely). The cartridges aren't even making it to the chamber by your description, so it's probably not a chamber issue.

If it was me, I'd spray some dry lube into the mags you have to slick them up a little, load and unload them a few times to get the lubricant evened out inside the mag, and see if the feed issues stop. Part of the clues to your problem is that it feeds Tula ammo okay, but not your brass cartridges.
The Tula ammo has a lacquer coating, and they may just slip off each other better than a straight brass cartridge would.
Lastly, beg or borrow some different brands of magazines from your friends or the range to eliminate the possibility that your issue is being caused by the magazines you currently have.
I much prefer steel magazines in my AR10 over the plastic ones.

Please let us know if this feed issue continues, or if they resolved the issues for you.

Regards,
Gregory
I'll slick the mags up as suggested. However, I seriously doubt the problem are the Mags. I've used DPMS LR308 and PMAG .308s and all work fine in my SCAR 17.

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Discussion Starter #18
.308 and 7.62X51 are different enough that if by chance you have a chamber that's on the minimum side of the chamber spesc can certainly cause some feed issues.
But not feeding from the mag is probably either a sloppy mag lock, letting the mag set below the correct feed line of the bolt, a bad magazine spring, or possibly a sloppy bolt/carrier (not very likely). The cartridges aren't even making it to the chamber by your description, so it's probably not a chamber issue.

If it was me, I'd spray some dry lube into the mags you have to slick them up a little, load and unload them a few times to get the lubricant evened out inside the mag, and see if the feed issues stop. Part of the clues to your problem is that it feeds Tula ammo okay, but not your brass cartridges.
The Tula ammo has a lacquer coating, and they may just slip off each other better than a straight brass cartridge would.
Lastly, beg or borrow some different brands of magazines from your friends or the range to eliminate the possibility that your issue is being caused by the magazines you currently have.
I much prefer steel magazines in my AR10 over the plastic ones.

Please let us know if this feed issue continues, or if they resolved the issues for you.

Regards,
Gregory
It’s not a magazine problem. If you read my 2nd post, I eliminated mags as a potential cause pretty early on.

I just got the rifle back from S&W, and the repair slip read “polished chamber and repaired upper assembly”. No detail was given as to WHAT PART of the upper was “repaired”. No parts were listed as having been replaced.

As soon as I get the chance to take it to the range (likely later this week), I’ll post an update here.
 

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It’s not a magazine problem. If you read my 2nd post, I eliminated mags as a potential cause pretty early on.

I just got the rifle back from S&W, and the repair slip read “polished chamber and repaired upper assembly”. No detail was given as to WHAT PART of the upper was “repaired”. No parts were listed as having been replaced.

As soon as I get the chance to take it to the range (likely later this week), I’ll post an update here.
You get to take it out to the Range?

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