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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello from Sweden.
I have been asked by one of the members at my range to help her ID this old revolver left to her by her father.
I have looked at the gun for a short moment, but don´t have the gun available for further examination at the moment..

This is the info I got so far:
6 shot
Serial nr 3013XX
Right side of barrel : .38 S&W Special OTG (or OTQ)
Left side of barrel: Smith & Wesson
Top of barrel: Smith&Wesson Springfield Mass. USA Patented okt 8.01 Dec 17.01 Feb 6.06 Sept 14.09 Dec 29.14
When opening up the cylinder there is 773 stamped under the yoke, prefixed by something that might be a D ?
See picture (sorry fot the quality!)

Nickel Finish is all there but scratched, grip is not original.
Barrel is in good internal condition, so is the cylinder.
No play in cylinder lockup.

The only question I have is that the forcingcone seems to be belled out, but has no visible cracks.
The forcingcone has a undercut at 6´a clock to go free of the cylinder yoke.
That undercut seems to be done by hand with a file, and it looks like someone has removed some material to be able to close the cylinder.
I have no experience with revolvers of this age, but has looked at my own S&W revolvers. My 686 has no undercut, but my 14-3 does.
On the 14-3 the undercut is straight and nice and obviously done from factory.


Q: Is this a Model 10 M&P?
Q: Aprox age of the gun?
Q: Is it possible that the forcingcone has been damaged (if?) like that due to hot loads?
Q: If feed by mild targetloads with WC´s, would it be safe to shoot?

The owner would like the gun to be kept as a shooter, if safe, and turn it over to her son that just has started shooting.

Thank you for any information that you can provide me and the owner with.
Swede

492519
492520

492518
 

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Welcome from Iowa. Your Military and Police revolver was born in 1902.
It became the M10 in 1957 when they gave them model numbers. I would only shoot the milder stuff in it.
The CTG stands for cartridge. The other numbers are assembly numbers and mean nothing.
Jim
 

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Sorry, I was wrong. I noticed the ejector rod dopes not have a locking lug, so it's not that old.
Did you get that number from the bottom of the butt?
Jim
 

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Based on the S/N and the ejector rod knob I'd put it in the early 1920's.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The 6 digit number is from the bottom of the butt, the 3 digit and prefix as pictured are from the frame when you open the cylinder, under the yoke.
 

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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! You have a Model 1905, 4th Change, .38 Military & Police revolver made in 1919 before heat treating was done to the cylinder. During WWI, S&W stopped stamping a trademark logo on new handguns until 1922. They also started stamping the right side frame with "Made in USA" in 1922. Both of those are missing on the M&P which helps narrow down the period of manufacture. The barrel is stamped with the type of cartridge (CTG) it shoots. Also, at the time your friend's gun was made, S&W had not implemented a forcing cone on the barrel end. From your description, it sounds like someone modified the barrel end to make a forcing cone. We would need to see pictures to make any judgment about safety. Does the serial number stamped under the barrel where the extractor rod docks match the ones on the rear of the cylinder and the butt? It should be 6 digits like the butt's SN because that is the official serial number of the gun. Numbers and letters in the yoke area are assembly numbers or inspector's stamps from manufacturing.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you guys for the input, and things to look for. During my short few minutes to inspect this gun I obviously missed some things! Like the other places for serial nr.
I will give the lady a call for a closer inspection of the gun and take more pictures.
I will return to this thread with more info.

You guys are a fantastic source of knowledge and hospitality!
Swede
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So, some more info on this revolver:
@Wiregrassguy: Yes, all matching numbers on butt, cylinder and barrel.
The term "forcing cone" was maybe a misstake from my side due to language and terminology.
Upon closer inspection, there is no internal "cone" and the rifling starts directly.

But I still have some thoughts about that part of the barrel.

As seen in this picture, the barrel seems flared (1) at the start, with that said flare cut away at the 6` clock position (2)
492729


492730

Here you can also see the undercut, and that there are no smooth "cone" section.

492731

In this picture you can tell that there are almost no space between (2) where the undercut has been done and (3) the cylinder.
There are also visible wear by dragging at point (4)
It is clear that the removal of material at position (2) are done by hand. But that was impossible to catch by camera.

Since the original owner are no longer with us to answer any questions, I asked the lady about if she knew anything about this and her answer was that her father had mentioned that the gun had a "stuck" cylinder and was difficult to open and close.. but that was more than 40 yrs ago as she remember it.

I guess, that somewhere during time, hot loads have been shot, causing the gun to lock up, and material been removed to make the gun run again.

Safe to shoot with mild targetloads with soft lead WC´s or not?
What do you guys think?

Thanks
Swede
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Also, would you call this finish Crome or Nickel?
How many was made of this model/style?
Any value?
 

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Well, I don't think you got your terminology wrong. In fact, even old time collectors call the barrel end the "forcing cone" even on guns that don't have it, probably because we have had forcing cones since the mid-1920s and no one is old enough to remember anything else. :) The forcing cone is just a slight bevel inside the mouth of the barrel end which guides the bullet nose into the barrel. I see now what you were describing. Measure the gap between the barrel end and the cylinder face. It should be .004 to .010" ( 0.1 to 0.25 mm) or about the width of a credit card. I think your barrel to cylinder gap is too small which is allowing the yoke flange (3 and 4) to contact the barrel (2). It can be fixed by using end shake bearings to push the cylinder back toward the recoil shield. You can test this by grasping the cylinder and pulling it rearward toward the recoil shield, then measure the gap. You can also see if the yoke flange clears the barrel.There are other ways of dealing with end shake involving peening the yoke barrel but I suggest using a gunsmith if that is necessary.

The finish appears to be factory original and it is nickel. S&W rarely used chrome and only on much later guns. The .38 M&P has been around in various engineering configurations since 1899. There have been about 7 million of them made. M&P's of your gun's vintage sell for around $400-500 in very good condition in the US. I don't know about the European market.
 
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