Smith And Wesson Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I love shooting my MP-15 on iron sights and am getting tight groupings at 25 yards. Truth is I am now 53 and can hardly see the x and am relying on just knowing where it is supposed to be. Question is, is there a 2x or 3x red dot or other that can co-witness from say 25 to 125 yards or do slightly older folks just shoot scopes?

Thanks folks ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
When my vision went to crap with the added bonus of an astigmatism, (yes, I'm "slightly older" now) I switched to low power prism optics for short range work. I personally like what Primary Arms offers; reasonably prices, decent features and very workable.

I use a 1x Cyclops on my rimfire steel challenge rifle and a 3x Prism on my AR. I just added a PA 1-6x with a 22lr specific reticle on my Tippmann M4-22 Elite and have been very happy with all of them so far.

So long story short, due to my degraded vision I ditched the irons and replaced them with optics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,864 Posts
Eotech makes some mighty nice stuff and have power magnifying options for most of their holographic sites. The 512 resides on many of my firearms and has never let me down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
When my vision went to crap with the added bonus of an astigmatism, (yes, I'm "slightly older" now) I switched to low power prism optics for short range work. I personally like what Primary Arms offers; reasonably prices, decent features and very workable.

I use a 1x Cyclops on my rimfire steel challenge rifle and a 3x Prism on my AR. I just added a PA 1-6x with a 22lr specific reticle on my Tippmann M4-22 Elite and have been very happy with all of them so far.

So long story short, due to my degraded vision I ditched the irons and replaced them with optics.
+1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,726 Posts
I have a Lucid HD7 on my Stag Model 1 and with its integral mount , it has a good lower one third co-witness. I can use either the dot or iron sights with no problem.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,010 Posts
So I love shooting my MP-15 on iron sights and am getting tight groupings at 25 yards. Truth is I am now 53 and can hardly see the x and am relying on just knowing where it is supposed to be. Question is, is there a 2x or 3x red dot or other that can co-witness from say 25 to 125 yards or do slightly older folks just shoot scopes?

Thanks folks ...
Magnified optics, 2x or 3x, will not co-witness with irons. The front sight will be a blur at 2x. At 3x the front sight will begin to disappear. At 4x it will not be visible.

There are many LPVO (low power variable optics) that advertise 1-4x or 1-6x but the 1x isn't a true 1x. The A2 front sight will be fuzzy and remain in the sight picture.

To co-witness requires a 1x reflex or holographic like the EOTech.

There are 3x 'magnifiers' that work in conjunction with the above 1x sights. They are mounted to flip to the side out of the way when the shooter wants 1x and/or co-witness. However, they are heavy and clumsy.

A lot of guys have issue with the A2 front sight that remains a fuzzy mess in their sight picture at low power magnification. They often replace the front sight with just a gas block or with a gas block/folding sight.

With an A2 in place and for range shooting, you might consider just going with a conventional 3-9x. Crank up the magnification above 4X and enjoy. Or go with LPVO 1-6x in a style like I have on one of my AR platform rimfire rifles.

IMG_5484 2.jpg
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,940 Posts
There are a number of ways to deal with problems as your eyesight deteriorates. It's not necessarily resolved by adding optics to a rifle.

I also have had the slow degeneration of my eyesight related to aging. Other than a growing cataract (which will eventually have to be addresses) this has been mainly affecting my close in vision (reading, etc) with some difficulty focusing on distance.

My eye doctor discovered a problem called Fuchs Dystopia that affects the cornea; a problem that can be addressed with a simple ointment that draws moisture from the eye.

But these are my issues. Do you know exactly what has been happening with your vision?

In my case, I was able to address my needs for shooting with a set of glasses that were made expressly for use at the range. They are regular safety glasses with shatterproof lenses.

The lens for my dominant eye is a single vision lens and is set with focus at the plane of the end of my outstretched hand. This roughly matches the position of the front sight of a handgun, and approximates that of the front sight of a rifle when shouldered. The other lens is a progressive lens which allows me to shift sharp focus between close up objects and distant objects like the target.

Remember that when you shoot, the front sight should be in sharp focus. Distant objects like the target will normally be fuzzy - especially in dim light.

The use of an optical sight like a scope can help basically bring the sight picture into a small short focal plane created by the optic. To see this you need glasses that will correct for close up objects which is essentially the focal plane the scope is creating. For red dot sights, focus is basically the same as with iron sights.

You can get red dot optics and mount them to co-witness with existing sights on your AR-15 platform. Remember that inexpensive sights rarely can stand up to the recoil impulse over time (which is why the better optics cost more). An inexpensive red-dot may survive long term use on a .22LR rifle, but not on a full power .223 / 5.56mm platform.

I recently bought an Aimpoint PRO (Patrol Ready Optic) which came with a co-witness sight base and installed neatly with the folding sights I have on the rifle. It's a 1x (non-magnification) optic with a 2 moa dot. A 3x magnifier can be added, but it hangs over the rear folded sight on my rifle.

I've got a very old EOTech that has been a good performing red-dot sight. A couple of Vortex models are also good in co-witness. I have a SPARC-AR and Strike-Fire and both have held up well.

So, my advice is to try a set of glasses first, then consider some optics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,343 Posts
There are a number of ways to deal with problems as your eyesight deteriorates. It's not necessarily resolved by adding optics to a rifle.

I also have had the slow degeneration of my eyesight related to aging. Other than a growing cataract (which will eventually have to be addresses) this has been mainly affecting my close in vision (reading, etc) with some difficulty focusing on distance.

My eye doctor discovered a problem called Fuchs Dystopia that affects the cornea; a problem that can be addressed with a simple ointment that draws moisture from the eye.

But these are my issues. Do you know exactly what has been happening with your vision?

In my case, I was able to address my needs for shooting with a set of glasses that were made expressly for use at the range. They are regular safety glasses with shatterproof lenses.

The lens for my dominant eye is a single vision lens and is set with focus at the plane of the end of my outstretched hand. This roughly matches the position of the front sight of a handgun, and approximates that of the front sight of a rifle when shouldered. The other lens is a progressive lens which allows me to shift sharp focus between close up objects and distant objects like the target.

Remember that when you shoot, the front sight should be in sharp focus. Distant objects like the target will normally be fuzzy - especially in dim light.

The use of an optical sight like a scope can help basically bring the sight picture into a small short focal plane created by the optic. To see this you need glasses that will correct for close up objects which is essentially the focal plane the scope is creating. For red dot sights, focus is basically the same as with iron sights.

You can get red dot optics and mount them to co-witness with existing sights on your AR-15 platform. Remember that inexpensive sights rarely can stand up to the recoil impulse over time (which is why the better optics cost more). An inexpensive red-dot may survive long term use on a .22LR rifle, but not on a full power .223 / 5.56mm platform.

I recently bought an Aimpoint PRO (Patrol Ready Optic) which came with a co-witness sight base and installed neatly with the folding sights I have on the rifle. It's a 1x (non-magnification) optic with a 2 moa dot. A 3x magnifier can be added, but it hangs over the rear folded sight on my rifle.

I've got a very old EOTech that has been a good performing red-dot sight. A couple of Vortex models are also good in co-witness. I have a SPARC-AR and Strike-Fire and both have held up well.

So, my advice is to try a set of glasses first, then consider some optics.
+1 or be like me and get your lenses replaced. I have 20-20 and 20-25 now. Of course it wasn't cheap, like 10 grand an eye.....:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Mark .. I use contacts to correct my long vision and that messes up my short vision in return. I do have some bi-focal safety glasses at work which I will try. I guess if I can’t see the x at the back of the range then I guess I should go get my prescription checked as well!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Welcome to the forum! welcome01

My husband is now 56, he prefers scopes, but with his eyesight....
Thanks Wendy! Seems like a real friendly forum on here ..

Thanks all for the replies .. I have plenty of good leads here ..

Cheers,
Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
What I thought to be correct was confirmed above - you probably can't co-witness anything more than 1.5x because the sight will blur. A couple of years ago, I ditched my red dot because my old eyes were having trouble doing much more than keeping the bullet on the target at 50+ yards. I found a Nikon 2-7x scope on sale at Bass Pro, replaced the red dot, and haven't looked back.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,010 Posts
1x red dot is for fast target acquisition, not making small groups on paper.

All my AR shooting is done offhand from 50 - 200yds at steel. Point & click shooting. As long as there's a 'ding' I'm happy.

For those with a 1x red dot agonizing over not seeing a bullseye clearly on paper, they're using the wrong optic to begin with, even if eyes are decent.

I'm in my 60s and struggle with eyesight like most of my similarly aged friends. My Aimpoint Micro is perfect for what it's intended. I've consider an LPVO but don't want to add a bunch of weight and lose co-witness.

gwLmOhy.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Shooting glasses with bifocals

There are a number of ways to deal with problems as your eyesight deteriorates. It's not necessarily resolved by adding optics to a rifle.

I also have had the slow degeneration of my eyesight related to aging. Other than a growing cataract (which will eventually have to be addresses) this has been mainly affecting my close in vision (reading, etc) with some difficulty focusing on distance.

My eye doctor discovered a problem called Fuchs Dystopia that affects the cornea; a problem that can be addressed with a simple ointment that draws moisture from the eye.

But these are my issues. Do you know exactly what has been happening with your vision?

In my case, I was able to address my needs for shooting with a set of glasses that were made expressly for use at the range. They are regular safety glasses with shatterproof lenses.

The lens for my dominant eye is a single vision lens and is set with focus at the plane of the end of my outstretched hand. This roughly matches the position of the front sight of a handgun, and approximates that of the front sight of a rifle when shouldered. The other lens is a progressive lens which allows me to shift sharp focus between close up objects and distant objects like the target.

Remember that when you shoot, the front sight should be in sharp focus. Distant objects like the target will normally be fuzzy - especially in dim light.

The use of an optical sight like a scope can help basically bring the sight picture into a small short focal plane created by the optic. To see this you need glasses that will correct for close up objects which is essentially the focal plane the scope is creating. For red dot sights, focus is basically the same as with iron sights.

You can get red dot optics and mount them to co-witness with existing sights on your AR-15 platform. Remember that inexpensive sights rarely can stand up to the recoil impulse over time (which is why the better optics cost more). An inexpensive red-dot may survive long term use on a .22LR rifle, but not on a full power .223 / 5.56mm platform.

I recently bought an Aimpoint PRO (Patrol Ready Optic) which came with a co-witness sight base and installed neatly with the folding sights I have on the rifle. It's a 1x (non-magnification) optic with a 2 moa dot. A 3x magnifier can be added, but it hangs over the rear folded sight on my rifle.

I've got a very old EOTech that has been a good performing red-dot sight. A couple of Vortex models are also good in co-witness. I have a SPARC-AR and Strike-Fire and both have held up well.

So, my advice is to try a set of glasses first, then consider some optics.
These shooting glasses from SSP with top bifocals helped me focus on my sights better, due to me being farsighted. Found them on Amazon at a decent price.

https://www.amazon.com/SSP-Eyewear-Interchangeable-AST-KIT/dp/B01HD7351S/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2SK2SH0V9D13B&keywords=ssp+eyewear+top+focal+tactical+safety+glasses&qid=1582620387&sprefix=Ssp,aps,185&sr=8-2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Folks, thanks again for all the input. I hope you are all safe and well out there ..
I wanted to update you all seeing as you all took the time to help me out. Firstly, I did check my prescription which was still in. :0) I also did try shooting in my bi-focal safety glasses, with mixed results. Definitely helped with the front post, but I figured I wouldn't be carrying them around, so better not to get too used to shooting with them on.
I spoke to a few combat vets at work and at my local range and there was a lot of love for ACOG, which I was excited about until I saw the price tag! One of the guys did mention that the ACSS was very similar to the Primary Arms reticule and also that they are local to me, so I went with the Cyclops after a little more research.
I found that setting up the diopter made everything crystal clear at 1x and also shooting with both eyes open made everything even clearer. So, I'm all the way back to the first reply from cjt50! Could have saved a bunch of time if I had listened :0) ...
Thanks again, folks.
465416
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,817 Posts
I have a Tru-glo red dot on my AR. It is a 2X42mm and has held up for the past 5 or 6 years. They are inexpensive ($70) and provide just enough magnification to help older eyes out to 100 yards or so. I have it co-witnessed with my factory iron sights
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top