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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I found the DA pull on my new 610 to be unpleasantly heavy (9.5-10lbs). This is primarily a "range toy."

I don't want to argue about whether I should stone the engagement surfaces first and/or never replace springs: Suffice to say that S&W installs lighter springs as part of their "trigger job."


After reading up on hammer/trigger springs, I replaced the hammer/mainspring on my new 610 with the one from Wilson's kit.

I didn't touch the trigger/rebound spring, because I thought the SA trigger pull was fine.

I tightened the strain screw all the way. The DA pull was reduced to ≈9.0lbs, and it seemed smoother.

Testing today, I'm getting light primer strikes and "clicks" instead of "bangs" roughly 1/3 of the time shooting DA: FAIL.

I've read StraightShooter's article several times, but I'm still not sure what's going on...

Options:

1. The springs are out of balance because I didn't change out the rebound spring. I need to replace the rebound spring.

2. I'm an idiot for messing with this. I should put the OEM mainspring back in, toss the Wilson kit in a drawer, and call it a day.


Please advise,
 

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On the newer round butt guns the strain screw will be too short for any of the replacement main springs. I use a set screw from McMaster with a built in unlock feature to get infinite adjustment. The part number is 95235A007 pack of 10 for 4.32. The stock strain screw goes in a ziplock bag with the original springs and the serial number of the gun. BTW you never stone the engagement surfaces on the hammer and trigger. You stone places where they rub against other parts and you also stone the rebound slide and polish the inside of the frame.
 

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I would suggest option 2. If it's a new gun , the more you shoot it the happier the internals will be together and should smooth out considerably.
 

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You can dry fire a few thousand times or take a fine stone and gently smooth the surfaces of the various parts
 
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Discussion Starter #5
On the newer round butt guns the strain screw will be too short for any of the replacement main springs. I use a set screw from McMaster with a built in unlock feature to get infinite adjustment...
Aha... It was odd that the Wilson spring was noticeably shorter than the OEM spring.

I guess there's a third option: Mess with the strain screw.

I have another one on the way ($5 from Midway) to play with, and I might try to reduce the DA trigger pull that way...


I would suggest option 2. If it's a new gun, the more you shoot it the happier the internals will be together and should smooth out considerably.
You can dry fire a few thousand times or take a fine stone and gently smooth the surfaces of the various parts
Right: dryfire, stone surfaces, etc...

I'm dry firing, and I might grind on it later, but right now a basic problem is that I think the OEM springs are excessively stiff.
 

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I found that ever so slightly polishing the bottom and back surface of part 75 (rebound slide) helped smooth things out. Again, this is using a ultra fine Arkansas stone (NOT a Dremel) and going very lightly with a smidge of oil
 
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Discussion Starter #7
I found that ever so slightly polishing the bottom and back surface of part 75 (rebound slide) helped smooth things out...
Yeah, I was hoping to avoid removing the rebound spring/slide, but I may do that, too...

So, back to my original question: It's a non-issue that left the OEM rebound spring in there and only changed the mainspring, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Buy a bunch of ammo and shoot it in. It will smooth out... All are smooth from USE!
How did I know that you guys were all going to say something like this?


FWIW, this is doubly frustrating, because I replaced the mainspring on my LCRx with the lightest one from the Wolff kit at the same time that I did the N-Frame.

The Ruger's trigger is now markedly improved (I have two, so I can compare directly), and at the range this morning it didn't miss a beat...
 

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Aha... It was odd that the Wilson spring was noticeably shorter than the OEM spring.

I guess there's a third option: Mess with the strain screw.

I have another one on the way ($5 from Midway) to play with, and I might try to reduce the DA trigger pull that way...






Right: dryfire, stone surfaces, etc...

I'm dry firing, and I might grind on it later, but right now a basic problem is that I think the OEM springs are excessively stiff.
You're the one getting the misfires. Play with the springs some more.
 

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Actually a 9.5 to 10 # trigger pull is not bad for a S&W. I have a couple that were in the 11-12# range. I found that stoning the rebound slide and the frame where it rides, and installing a 15# rebound slide spring will knock about a pound off the DA trigger pull, but, it feels like more because the action is very slick. That is without touching the factory main spring
 

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When I was shooting competition I found a smooth consistent trigger pull preferable to a light one. Between shooting and dryfiring, most smoothed up fine. The one or two that did not would be stripped down and the friction points stoned. Changing spring was not something I did. Others swapped springs with few problems but for my style of shooting, it messed with the balance if the trigger action.

Kevin
 

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I don't want to argue about whether I should stone the engagement surfaces first and/or never replace springs: Suffice to say that S&W installs lighter springs as part of their "trigger job."
I wasn't going to respond since it seemed that you had a question and only wanted one answer but in case anyone comes along with the same question ...

When smith and wesson does a trigger job they do indeed go to lighter springs .. well to a different spring all together choosing to use the ribbed version which in reading is supposed to reduce stacking but unlike the wilson spring doesnt have the somewhat sever bend at the hook end. I am not sure the spring they install is actually any lighter .. just provides a different kind of stroke. I cant swear.

Having said that .. the gun has also gone through a smoothing out by stoning or polishing relevant contact surfaces, probably was given a good clean and had oil applied to relevant surfaces. Most of these guns come bone dry.

A spring in the gun has to overcome a bunch of stuff going on through the cycle of drawing the trigger and its release. They can use the "lighter" spring because they have made contact friction less so the spring has less to work against.

Simply changing the spring in my experience will do nothing but cause trouble unless you spend some time on the things the spring has to work against so that the lighter spring can still do the job the heavier spring did.

Changing out the Rebound or trigger return spring will do nothing in regards to light strikes but can cause reset issues. Same deal .. if a rough slide has to skurry across a rough frame in dry unlubricated condition the lighter spring may not be able to properly reset the trigger.

Having said that .. I have messed with springs and never been happy with the results but the one that gave me the biggest bang for the buck was going to a slightly lighter rebound. It helps get the trigger moving through its stroke faster and maybe that overcomes what might be considered a heavy main. I went back to stock though because I liked the faster return when I am shooting fast.

A 9-10lb trigger like mentioned above is actually not bad at all. I would bet money that the trigger pull on my 28 is heavier than that. I will take a heavy smooth trigger everyday of the week over a lighter gritty one. I dont know how much time you have spent with Revolvers but if its something you have started recently I find that if you change your stroke so that instead of pulling straight back like you might with a 19ll or striker you curl your finger as you draw you will make a smooth stroke.

Turns out that stroke has now translated to my other guns and I am pretty comfortable saying I can pick up any handgun and shot it well. Dry fire at the bad guys on your TV and practicing curling your trigger finger on the stroke makes it so that front sight doesn't budge.

Now mechanically what would I recommend?? Pulling the rebound slide is a breeze. Take it out and put it to a flat surface and give it a good going over. I used some 1500 grit wet dry on my work table and then went to my black arkansas.

CLEAN the inside of the rebound slide where the spring lives. In both my Rugers and my smiths I have pulled out a ton of gunk that seems to be caught in there. Then I take a brass brush on a drill and give it a good scrub on the interior. Now your spring has a nice smooth surface to work against. I add a drop of oil on reassembly. Polish as best you can the frame where the rebound slide rides but .. its kind tough to get in there so do the best you can.

I personally am not comfortable stoning the working bits of the gun so I depend on time at the range and dry fire to smooth them out but I have found that taking off the side plate and giving it a good hosing with clp and then applying some gun oil to moving or contact areas does WONDERS! I recently did it to my 28 and while I can sense that the pull is heavy .. it is so lickity spit smooth that the front sight doesn't budge. Its a pleasure to shoot.

Your lighter spring might work if you do the things above and since its a range toy .. so what if you get a couple of light strikes.

Regarding the LCR .. I have a few Rugers. The spring set up is different but I had gone to lighter springs in an older GP. Worked fine for a couple of years but once the internals started to get dirty I started to get light strikes. I might never have noticed but I switched over to CCI primers and I would get a light strike or two per cylinder. It was not a range toy but a carry so .. opened it up, cleaned it up and installed factory fresh springs. If your LCR is a a carry I would suggest going back to factory springs and instead give it a good clean. Rugers come from the factory FILTHY!

There is a great scene in 13th warrior where one of the large viking dudes throws a sword to Antonio bandaras where upon he proclaims .. I cant use this its to heavy .. to which the Viking simply says .. "then grow stronger"

Words to live by .. Clean the gun, add a bit of oil and Practice practice practice and leave the springs alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Actually a 9.5 to 10 # trigger pull is not bad for a S&W. I have a couple that were in the 11-12# range. I found that stoning the rebound slide and the frame where it rides, and installing a 15# rebound slide spring will knock about a pound off the DA trigger pull, but, it feels like more because the action is very slick. That is without touching the factory main spring.
I have messed with springs and never been happy with the results but the one that gave me the biggest bang for the buck was going to a slightly lighter rebound. It helps get the trigger moving through its stroke faster and maybe that overcomes what might be considered a heavy main. I went back to stock though because I liked the faster return when I am shooting fast.

A 9-10lb trigger like mentioned above is actually not bad at all...

I dont know how much time you have spent with Revolvers...

Now mechanically what would I recommend?? Pulling the rebound slide is a breeze.

CLEAN the inside of the rebound slide where the spring lives. In both my Rugers and my smiths I have pulled out a ton of gunk that seems to be caught in there.

Regarding the LCR... Rugers come from the factory FILTHY!
OK, I'll try polishing and lubricating the rebound slide and maybe a lighter rebound spring.

(You say removing the rebound slide is a "breeze," but elsewhere people say it's a PITA... I'll find out, I guess.)

Then maybe I'll start messing with the OEM mainspring and the strain screw...


Commence jeering: I have tens of thousands of rounds through various Glocks (I have eight of 'em, which is probably enough). The 610 and the LCRxes are my first revolvers.

The trigger on neither the 610 nor the LCRx was bad, but I'm not the type to leave well enough alone...

FWIW, the interiors of both guns were very clean when I opened them. Of course, I had bought them new and only put several dozen rounds through the S&W and several hundred through the Ruger.
 

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I have had good luck, as I said by messing with rebound slide & spring. I also have tried using the set screw mentioned by seriesguy up above. It allows you to back off the strain screw but it stays tight. I have a couple revolvers with stoned arebound slides, 15 or 16 pound springs, and then backing off the strain screw a bit to bring trigger pull down to around 9.5 -9.75 pounds, but its very smooth & no light strikes
 

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Discussion Starter #16
On the newer round butt guns the strain screw will be too short for any of the replacement main springs. I use a set screw from McMaster with a built in unlock feature to get infinite adjustment. The part number is 95235A007 pack of 10 for 4.32.
I also have tried using the set screw mentioned by seriesguy up above. It allows you to back off the strain screw but it stays tight.
My Google-Fu is failing me... I can't find McMaster 95235A007 anywhere, not even on McMaster's site.

Are you guys buying these directly from McMaster?

Or is there some other source on the errornet?


I have a couple revolvers with stoned arebound slides, 15 or 16 pound springs, and then backing off the strain screw a bit to bring trigger pull down to around 9.5 -9.75 pounds, but its very smooth & no light strikes.
OK, this sounds like a plan...

Are you guys using Arkansas or India stones? Or just fine-grit (1500) sanding blocks?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Set screw:

Looking around various forums, it sounds like I'm just looking for a 3/8" or 1/2" Grade 8 8-32 set screw, right?

I can probably find something like that at the local hardware store...

And I know: once I find the correct adjustment, then I'll put a dab of blue LocTite on it.
 

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OK, I'll try polishing and lubricating the rebound slide and maybe a lighter rebound spring.

(You say removing the rebound slide is a "breeze," but elsewhere people say it's a PITA... I'll find out, I guess.)

Then maybe I'll start messing with the OEM mainspring and the strain screw...


Commence jeering: I have tens of thousands of rounds through various Glocks (I have eight of 'em, which is probably enough). The 610 and the LCRxes are my first revolvers.

The trigger on neither the 610 nor the LCRx was bad, but I'm not the type to leave well enough alone...

FWIW, the interiors of both guns were very clean when I opened them. Of course, I had bought them new and only put several dozen rounds through the S&W and several hundred through the Ruger.
No jeers! Welcome to the light. I have shot a lot of semi auto .. don't particularly care for the glock line but they are all pretty similar. But revolver .. Yes sir .. I do love me some revolver. My intro to guns was a revolver and a pump shotgun. I have had many many many guns since then and I always come back to some more revolvers. I still have a few semi autos around but shooting them is more about staying sharp and shooting revolver is staying sharp and having fun.

I have had zero problem taking out the rebound slide using a number 2 pencil.

I take a small screw driver and gently pry up on the rebound slide from the hole and not the bottom so I dont mar the frame. The second I can see some hole I take a pencil .. a real one with wood .. and I insert the tip into the Cavity and press in as I pull up. Works like a charm. I have done this a dozen times without any fuss.

There is going to be a learning curve to shooting revovler if it hasnt been your thing but then you will be part of the elusive crowd that can do it well. Its like driving a stick ... You are just a little cooler if you can when others cant! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
No jeers! Welcome the light...
I appreciate it... I'm slow but don't have any problems hitting with the 610 or the LCRx. I won't be using either to shoot USPSA, but that's not really the point.

My complaint about the 610's trigger isn't that it's heavy as much as it seems to "stack": It's light at first, and then gets heavier and heavier before it breaks. Maybe that's just the geometry of the mechanism...

I'll see what I can do about removing the rebound slide/spring. First I'm going to go buy a couple set screws, so that I can play with the mainspring, too, once I have grips and the sideplate off...
 

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I appreciate it... I'm slow but don't have any problems hitting with the 610 or the LCRx. I won't be using either to shoot USPSA, but that's not really the point.

My complaint about the 610's trigger isn't that it's heavy as much as it seems to "stack": It's light at first, and then gets heavier and heavier before it breaks. Maybe that's just the geometry of the mechanism...

I'll see what I can do about removing the rebound slide/spring. First I'm going to go buy a couple set screws, so that I can play with the mainspring, too, once I have grips and the sideplate off...
Since your tinkering .. and you want to get the set screws you may want to try the wolf spring. I landed up liking the stock spring better and gave the wolf spring away but .. I did like the wolf spring gobs better than the wilson!! I bought the stock weight wolf spring and it was an improvement in some ways over the stock spring but was light years ahead of the wilson for what I want a revolver to feel like.

Its only a few bucks and since you are messing around .. I would suggest you order one and see if you like it better. The wilson felt sloppy to me .. I like some feedback from my guns and I got that with the wolf without the sloppy or the stack. .. I still liked stock better in the end?? :)

Edited to add
Oh and since you have the wilson kit .. try one down from stock in the rebound after you clean it up, especially inside the channel .. I bet you will be pretty happy!

I think the heaviest one in the kit is 14 lbs and is still a fair bit lighter than stock .. but wait for the guys who really know stuff to confirm that.
 
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