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12 gauge slugs out of an autoloader don't bruise as much as a fixed breech shotgun. 44 magnums out of a Desert Eagle still rock you....but not as harshly as shooting a 29 with good (rubber) grips. SO many variables between calibers..guns..grips..it really isa complex subject. All I truly know is there is NO comfortable way to shoot a 500 S&W...at least not for me. Some punishment is just not worth it..:)
My 500 shoots wonderful?? Clears out the range too...:)

thewelshm
 

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All I know is big bore rifle's are going to punish your shoulder and S&W model 29 shooting full house mags is going to punish your shooting hand. nvonjvila
 

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Yosimite, It's really momentum, rather than energy, that equates to the recoil we feel in shooting handguns. Sanctioning bodies use the term Power Factor to express this. For instance, a .45 ACP 200 grain target load at 750 FPS (PF ~150), and a 27 grain 5.7X28 projectile at 2025 FPS (PF~55), have approximately the same energy. But the much heavier, but much slower .45, has almost 3 times the recoil of the 5.7x28.

But more directly to your question, yes, within my humble experience the little 9MM revolvers have noticeably more recoil than the little revolvers using 38+p ammunition. This, if revolvers are of similar weight, and just considering major manufacturer ammunition. The 38, with it's greater case capacity, could be loaded to exceed 9MM depending upon how high a pressure the individual reloader, or factory, decided to load the 38. Some "Boutique" manufactuer's 38 +P reportedly has very impressive ballistics that may very well exceed 9MM, but I haven't as yet tested that ammo.

FWIW, I have a S&W Model 640 .38 and Model 940 9MM that both weigh about the same with 2" barrels. The 38+P 125 grain ammunition I've tested rarely hits 900 FPS in the Model 640. Similar weight 9MM is usually 1050 FPS or more. And the popular Federal 124 grain +P HST 9MM averages 1195 FPS in the 940. Anyway, just my experience in owning, shooting and chronographing two little S&W revolvers that are very similar, but different calibers..........ymmv
 

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FWIW, I have a S&W Model 640 .38 and Model 940 9MM that both weigh about the same with 2" barrels. The 38+P 125 grain ammunition I've tested rarely hits 900 FPS in the Model 640. Similar weight 9MM is usually 1050 FPS or more. And the popular Federal 124 grain +P HST 9MM averages 1195 FPS in the 940. Anyway, just my experience in owning, shooting and chronographing two little S&W revolvers that are very similar, but different calibers..........ymmv
The published rates for that 124 grain +P HST you mention are 1200 feet per second.

Don't they usually do velocity testing for the 9mm in a semiauto with a four inch barrel? ...... So I'm puzzled as to how you average 1195 in a two inch barrel revolver?

Considering that the revolver has a cylinder gap and only a two inch barrel it should be much less, shouldn't it?

I'm probably misunderstanding again, so please elucidate. These ballistics questions are fascinating.

Thanks.
 

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Verminator, You are correct in that most often factory and loading manual ballistics for 9MM, are from a 4" pistol barrel. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I've tested the 124 +P HST in a variety of 9MM firearms, with 2" to 16" barrels. From a 4" semi-auto barrel it averaged 1196 FPS, from a 5" semi-auto barrel 1236 FPS. About what might be expected, given the factory 1200 FPS listing. The 1195 FPS from the 2" revolver I mentioned is correct though. Someone else was skeptical, so I later tested the same lot of ammo in the same revolver, it averaged 1197 FPS. Perhaps harder to believe, the same 124 +P HST averaged 1291 FPS in a 3" revolver. Over a good many years, I've tested 9 and 10MM factory and reloaded ammo in various semi-autos and revolvers. In guns of similar barrel length, velocities are more often than not higher in the revolvers.

Coincidentally, the latest issue of Shooting Times has an article on this very subject.
 

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That's pretty amazing.

Did Shooting Times have an explanation for this?

It's certainly contradictory to what I've heard in the past on this area of ballistics.
 

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Well, after a bit of YouTubing I found that I'm probably operating on obsolete info (being an old guy, I have my share of it stored up).

It seems that actual tests dispel the notion that really significant amounts of pressure are lost from the cylinder gap.

Plus........the revolver actually has more barrel length than you would think, because the cylinder is not measured as part of barrel length........thus in a two inch snubby you should actually add the length of the cylinder to the total barrel length to be fair.

All that considered, I can now see an explanation for your test results that I didn't know before.

Well done.
 

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Wasn't sure which forum to post this in since it concerns ammo, SA's and revolvers, but...

Do the foot/lbs. of energy of a particular load, and the weight of the gun figured in, DIRECTLY EQUAL the amount of felt recoil? I know that SA's have less felt recoil than similar weight revolvers because of the spring absorbing some of the force, but are there any other factors, like how fast or slow burning the powder is, that may affect it?


What prompts my question, specifically, are the reviews of a 9mm snub revolver, which some say has only a LITTLE more recoil than a .38+P in the same weight gun, when the 9mm is like 200 fps faster with only 1 one hundredth difference in bullet weight (124 vs 125 grains)? It seems to me there should be a much greater difference in recoil, or is this also attributable to the shooter's subjectively PERCEIVED judgement of how it felt?
Here, a gun expert finds some counterintuitive results as well.

At the range, we tried hot load versus hot load (Federal +P+ 9BPLE for the 9mm and Remington 158-grain, lead, semi-wadcutter, hollow-point, +P “FBI Loads” in the .38 Special) and standard-pressure versus standard-pressure (Winchester 147-grain subsonic FMJs in the 9mm and Winchester 158-grain, round-nose, lead rounds in the .38). My five-foot-tall girlfriend, who owns a Ruger SP101 9mm that she doesn’t like because she thinks it kicks too much, shot the two LCRs side by side with each set of comparison loads and exclaimed, “Am I going nuts or does the 9mm kick less than the .38? You try it.”

I did, and I have to agree. The hot loads kicked less in the 9mm LCR than in the .38 Special LCR, and the same was true for the light loads. In the light load comparison in particular, it’s counterintuitive: The 147-grain 9mm is only 11 grains lighter in bullet weight than the .38 we were using, but it is going dramatically faster. I can only say, “Go figure, and be happy when counterintuitive results make something easier to shoot.” Of course, the fact that the .38 Special LCR is roughly 5 ounces lighter than the 9mm version may also have something to do with that.
https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/12/massad-ayoob-looks-ruger-lcr-9mm/
 

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Yosimite, It's really momentum, rather than energy, that equates to the recoil we feel in shooting handguns. Sanctioning bodies use the term Power Factor to express this. For instance, a .45 ACP 200 grain target load at 750 FPS (PF ~150), and a 27 grain 5.7X28 projectile at 2025 FPS (PF~55), have approximately the same energy. But the much heavier, but much slower .45, has almost 3 times the recoil of the 5.7x28.

But more directly to your question, yes, within my humble experience the little 9MM revolvers have noticeably more recoil than the little revolvers using 38+p ammunition. This, if revolvers are of similar weight, and just considering major manufacturer ammunition. The 38, with it's greater case capacity, could be loaded to exceed 9MM depending upon how high a pressure the individual reloader, or factory, decided to load the 38. Some "Boutique" manufactuer's 38 +P reportedly has very impressive ballistics that may very well exceed 9MM, but I haven't as yet tested that ammo.

FWIW, I have a S&W Model 640 .38 and Model 940 9MM that both weigh about the same with 2" barrels. The 38+P 125 grain ammunition I've tested rarely hits 900 FPS in the Model 640. Similar weight 9MM is usually 1050 FPS or more. And the popular Federal 124 grain +P HST 9MM averages 1195 FPS in the 940. Anyway, just my experience in owning, shooting and chronographing two little S&W revolvers that are very similar, but different calibers..........ymmv
This has nothing to do with the orginal OP question.

But go back to the orginal intent or question of the OP. It is about 9mm semi auto vs 38 special revolvers NOT 9mm revolvers.
 

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This has nothing to do with the orginal OP question.

But go back to the orginal intent or question of the OP. It is about 9mm semi auto vs 38 special revolvers NOT 9mm revolvers.
Actually, the question was:
What prompts my question, specifically, are the reviews of a 9mm snub revolver, which some say has only a LITTLE more recoil than a .38+P in the same weight gun
 

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Verminator, You are correct in that most often factory and loading manual ballistics for 9MM, are from a 4" pistol barrel. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I've tested the 124 +P HST in a variety of 9MM firearms, with 2" to 16" barrels. From a 4" semi-auto barrel it averaged 1196 FPS, from a 5" semi-auto barrel 1236 FPS. About what might be expected, given the factory 1200 FPS listing. The 1195 FPS from the 2" revolver I mentioned is correct though. Someone else was skeptical, so I later tested the same lot of ammo in the same revolver, it averaged 1197 FPS. Perhaps harder to believe, the same 124 +P HST averaged 1291 FPS in a 3" revolver. Over a good many years, I've tested 9 and 10MM factory and reloaded ammo in various semi-autos and revolvers. In guns of similar barrel length, velocities are more often than not higher in the revolvers.

Coincidentally, the latest issue of Shooting Times has an article on this very subject.
A big factor in all of this is the actual bore's effect on velocity. Look at the second chart in the link, and compare the velocity results between the 5" Korth and 5" 1911 using the same ammunition - the Korth is 100 fps slower. So if a 2" revolver has similar velocities to a 4" auto, it may well be that the auto has a slow barrel and the revolver a fast one.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results
 

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Thanks for joining late after the original post has been edited.
Thanks for not being explicit in your post today that you were talking about the OP prior to an edit that occured 8 days ago. Do you think rock185 was aware of the edit before you corrected him?
 

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Doesn't anybody say, "You're Welcome" anymore?

iuhjga;
 

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It's been peaceful since 4/11/19;)

Thank you:D
You're welcome.

:)

"An armed society is a polite society."
--Robert Heinlein
 
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