Smith And Wesson Forums banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Wasn't sure which forum to post this in since it concerns ammo, SA's and revolvers, but...

Do the foot/lbs. of energy of a particular load, and the weight of the gun figured in, DIRECTLY EQUAL the amount of felt recoil? I know that SA's have less felt recoil than similar weight revolvers because of the spring absorbing some of the force, but are there any other factors, like how fast or slow burning the powder is, that may affect it?


What prompts my question, specifically, are the reviews of a 9mm snub revolver, which some say has only a LITTLE more recoil than a .38+P in the same weight gun, when the 9mm is like 200 fps faster with only 1 one hundredth difference in bullet weight (124 vs 125 grains)? It seems to me there should be a much greater difference in recoil, or is this also attributable to the shooter's subjectively PERCEIVED judgement of how it felt?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,296 Posts
Felt recoil is Impulse which is the force (not energy) integrated over time


derive_impulse_1.gif

So no, but it is proportional. Regarding handguns, what further complicates things is that the force is not directly into the hand so there's an upward component (barrel flip) and a horizontal component that the palm captures.

Also, don't forget "felt" recoil is subjective. E. g. Locking my elbows increases my "felt" recoil because I'm stopping the gun faster (smaller delta t)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,296 Posts
Force over the time the force is applied ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,476 Posts
Felt or Perceived recoil is NOT the same as actual recoil. To many factors such as guns size and weight for perceived (felt)

You and I can shoot the same gun with same ammo and "feel" different recoil.

Yes, powder burn rate can make a difference in "felt" recoil for some, I find it negligible. I can't tell the difference between a load of Bullseye vs say Unique in 45 acp with 230 gr bullet Some say they can.
Fast powder as more of a snap, slow more of push (so they claim) or something like that Same with a light bullet vs a heavy bullet.
The debate and popcorn goes on and on.:D


JBM - Calculations - Recoil

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/daniel-zimmerman/measuring-recoil-comparison-pistols-part-1/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,608 Posts
My friend and I took our .454 Casull revolvers to the range. His is a 7 1/2" Freedom Arms model 83 premium grade single-action. Mine is a 7 1/2" Ruger Super Redhawk double/single-action. The gun weights are within an ounce. We shot the same ammo. We both agreed that my Ruger is far more pleasant to shoot than his triple the cost Freedom Arms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,874 Posts
12 gauge slugs out of an autoloader don't bruise as much as a fixed breech shotgun. 44 magnums out of a Desert Eagle still rock you....but not as harshly as shooting a 29 with good (rubber) grips. SO many variables between calibers..guns..grips..it really isa complex subject. All I truly know is there is NO comfortable way to shoot a 500 S&W...at least not for me. Some punishment is just not worth it..:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,296 Posts
All I truly know is there is NO comfortable way to shoot a 500 S&W...at least not for me. Some punishment is just not worth it..:)
The only time I really suffer with my 500 is when I shoot those 700grn. Underwood "dinosaur killers" .\' klmgzdo;
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
9mm snub revolver has only a LITTLE more recoil than a .38+P in the same weight gun, when the 9mm is like 200 fps faster with only 1 one hundredth difference in bullet weight (124 vs 125 grains)
Whoever said that was wrong.

I will say that the 9mm will have a sharper and increased recoil, definitely. Neither is exactly excessive.

I know that SA's have less felt recoil than similar weight revolvers because of the spring absorbing some of the force...
You lost me on that one.........like what spring is doing this "absorbing?"

SA's don't push back as much because of the design and angle of the butt.......it causes some energy to be absorbed by the barrel tending to flip up more.......and the longer the barrel the greater the effect.

I've noticed that my Gen 4 Glock 30 is the lightest recoiling .45 ACP I've ever shot........and that actually IS partially due to the spring system of the Gen 4.

In general......as has been noted above......a lot of this is subjective and our mileage tends to vary a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Whoever said that was wrong.

I will say that the 9mm will have a sharper and increased recoil, definitely. Neither is exactly excessive.



You lost me on that one.........like what spring is doing this "absorbing?"

SA's don't push back as much because of the design and angle of the butt.......it causes some energy to be absorbed by the barrel tending to flip up more.......and the longer the barrel the greater the effect.

I've noticed that my Gen 4 Glock 30 is the lightest recoiling .45 ACP I've ever shot........and that actually IS partially due to the spring system of the Gen 4.

In general......as has been noted above......a lot of this is subjective and our mileage tends to vary a lot.


Maybe not the spring but...


The recoil, or kick, tends to be absorbed by the moving mass of the slide in a semi-auto, so the shooter doesn’t feel the kick as much as in a revolver. (https://www.skilledsurvival.com/revolver-vs-semi-auto/)


The SA should have less felt recoil than a revolver of the same weight and using the same round is the point I was getting at - unless that is wrong also?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,476 Posts
Maybe not the spring but...


The recoil, or kick, tends to be absorbed by the moving mass of the slide in a semi-auto, so the shooter doesn’t feel the kick as much as in a revolver. (https://www.skilledsurvival.com/revolver-vs-semi-auto/)


The SA should have less felt recoil than a revolver of the same weight and using the same round is the point I was getting at - unless that is wrong also?
I agree with that (SA being a Semi Auto pistol not a SA Revolver)

Much like the recoil felt is greater in a Blow Back Pistol vs a Locked Breach action SA Pistol.

And the difference in bullet weight between 124 and 125 is One (1) grain not one 1/100th of a grain.;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23,200 Posts
There's a whole lot of factors you're not taking into account. 9mm's are not hotter than .38 specials, .38 special has much larger powder capacity & can be loaded much hotter... some loads just aren't to avoid damage to older guns. .38 special can be loaded to .357 velocities. Actually the little .38 S&W has the same capacity as a 9mm but modern powders would blow the older guns to smithereens. There are other factors too, like tighter chambers & bores giving greater velocities & barrel length giving more time to burn powder & bullet weight &... Plastic frames absorb some recoil as do semi-auto springs. Height of the barrel above the grip affects felt recoil. rubber grips absorb some recoil. A lot of the confusion comes from terminology like SA, SA has referred to Single Action for over 100 years but could also mean Semi Auto to some folks I suppose. Likewise a lot confuse the old .38 S&W w/ the .38 Special.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,386 Posts
You really want to experience 'felt' recoil come on out to my place and I'll take the brake off my 338 Lapua rifle and let you send a pill (300 grain) with it. I guarantee you'll only shoot it one time.

102 grains of H1000 and a 300 grain pill is a shoulder buster.

Someone did a recoil chart a while back and the 338 Lapua (unbraked) is the hardest recoiling firearm every built.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Maybe not the spring but...


The recoil, or kick, tends to be absorbed by the moving mass of the slide in a semi-auto, so the shooter doesn’t feel the kick as much as in a revolver. (https://www.skilledsurvival.com/revolver-vs-semi-auto/)


The SA should have less felt recoil than a revolver of the same weight and using the same round is the point I was getting at - unless that is wrong also?
No, I just misunderstood you.

When you said,
"I know that SA's have less felt recoil than similar weight revolvers because of the spring absorbing some of the force....."
I thought you were talking about single action revolver recoil vs. double action revolver recoil.

My bad.

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Oh, and as far as the recoil of 9mm vs. 38 Special in revolvers......I wasn't talking about handloads--just factory loads.

I know the .38 Special is pretty mild in factory loads and does not compete well with the 9mm.

Now that I think about it, though.......the hot velocities of the 9mm in a semi auto will not be the same from a revolver.......they'll be reduced because the revolver loses pressure through the cylinder gap and often also has a shorter barrel.

That also reduces recoil, so one must also take that into consideration in your original question on the 9mm revolver vs the .38 Special revolver.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,030 Posts
Felt recoil is Impulse which is the force (not energy) integrated over time


View attachment 376273

So no, but it is proportional. Regarding handguns, what further complicates things is that the force is not directly into the hand so there's an upward component (barrel flip) and a horizontal component that the palm captures.

Also, don't forget "felt" recoil is subjective. E. g. Locking my elbows increases my "felt" recoil because I'm stopping the gun faster (smaller delta t)
^^^^^^ This
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,266 Posts
My turkey hunting friends that are obsessed with pattern density weep and wail about shooting 3.5" 12ga loads from a bench. I shoot them at geese, and if a honker is coming in to the spread, I never hear the gun go off or feel the recoil.
It's all subjective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
The difference between shooting while sitting at the bench rest and shooting at moving targets from a standing position is not subjective, but instead objectively different in physical ways......two quite different things.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top