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Discussion Starter #1
Hello
Yesterday I had Range Duty at my Local Range for the day. We were very Busy and I had a Lot of first timer shooters on Deck, which Always Places me on High Alert status . I had Two fathers and Three son's show up together for some shooting fun. I as watching one of the Father's shooting his .40 Cal. Glock and all seemed fine with it. He then handed it to his son to fire who was a First time shooter, so my Eyes were locked on his actions handling this Pistol. The Son Loaded the Magazine and began firing. About half way through the Magazine, I noticed it fired but did not eject a shell. I then saw the son trying to force the slide shut, and called out for him to Lay the weapon down on the bench as I darted towards him. I Picked up the Glock & as I dropped the Magazine to clear the Gun, I barly could make out a spent shell casing way Down inside the Pistols barrel, and something Just did not look right with the spent shell casing, as it almost Looked as though the extractor had Pulled the case head off Upon my First inspection of it, But it Looked too clean to have Broken off that case head so evenly so I Proceeded to Look further into the Pistols malfunction. During the Process of me checking it out fully, The son tried to reach out and take the Pistol back from me, But I Held it out away from his reaching hand and Called out a Range Cease fire, and the complete range went Dead silent, while Other's shooter Looked my way to see what was going on here. The Other range safety officer That was working the Opposite end of our range firing line, came to my side to ask me what I had found with this Weapon, or what was wrong here for me to call out a Range Cease fire ? I told him, I was not sure but something looked very wrong here to me. I then carefully Looked down the Business end of the Glock Barrel as I could Not see any light through the breech end when Looking down through this Pistols Barrel, Chills ran down my spin as I saw the case head from the wrong end here. Apparently the spent shell had somehow Turned around in Flight after being fired and the slide slammed it down the barrel Backwards. It was far enough down in the barrel that if the next round in the magazine had been Jacked in and if the slide had been forced shut, it May have chambered a live round and gone off to complete a very Bad explosion ending in a disaster for the shooter and the Pistol, as Hard Ball ammo was being used and I suspect it may have been able to complete it's cycle if forced enough by the shooter. The Other Range officer is a trained Glock Armorer and he said he had Heard in his Glock Training school that this was Possible that a spent shell casing could be spun around in flight of being expelled from the Pistol and reinserted from the barrel, but he had never seen it happen before, Even when we had Team Glock match's that are timed events at our Range where they fire in Excess of 40,000 rounds per exercise. He also added that when they spoke of this Happening in his Glock training school, & the Instructor of that Glock school said most times it would happen due to a Broken extractor or bent extractor. My Range safety Partner removed the spent shell casing and handed the Pistol back to the Father telling him to go straight home and call Glock before firing the weapon again, or Carrying it for self Protection as the father told us he did and he suggested that he tell them the whole story and ask if they would either replace the weapon or at least find out just why this happened ? he did notice the extractor was Not bent or Broken and could not explain to me or the father why the Pistol had done this ? I was very Pleased that the Young First time shooter Listened Intently to my Range command's to lay his weapon down or we may have just had a disaster on our hands. When I closed the range down last evening the Head Range Master in charge Praised me on Catching this Pistol's Malfunction, and I added quickly, This is why I am Not at all In Favor of these fast firing semi auto's and one reason I Prefer my Good Old Classic S&W revolvers for shooting...I don't own but one bottom Feeder being a S&W .22 Pistol, but after watching this all Unfold in front of me Yesterday I would Highly suggest anyone else shooting a Glock Pistol be on their Toes making sure this does not happen to them, as it would surely Ruin your day, or perhap's your Life...Hammerdown
 

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Wow! Thank God it didn't happen on a dark and stormy night!

David
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hello David
The Senior Range safety officer that Basically Runs our range is very concerned over this safety issue and will be addressing it with Glock him self from what he told me. We have started a new Program that is Glock sponsored and it involves Timed Competition firing Glock only semi autos at our range. The last event was Late fall and they fired over 30,000 rounds at that event in one afternoon. The Range safety officer him self is armed daily with a Glock .40 Cal. so this hit close to home with him and he is not happy that this happened. Being that our range is owned and Operated by the Tennessee wildlife Resource agency I can tell you it is being looked into very seriously and I know my Head Range safety Officer well enough that he will not just let this slide without hearing what Glock has to say about this safety issue. I am Hoping he get's a full explanation of just why this took Place, but I feel being that it was such a serious malfunction that perhaps Glock will not give him a full explanation of how this all transpired, but perhaps his Persistence will trigger a safety recall of all Glock weapons that may be susceptible to this safety issue for Modifications or repairs. I consulted the opwner of this weapon who was the Young man's Father and was stern with him on how I would go straighthome and call Glock to see what they will do about it, as is could have cost him his Son's face or wrose Yet his life if the weapon would have allowed the insertion of a Live round and completed it's cycle and fired with this spent case in the barrel. Regards, Hammerdown
 

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Hammerdown,

I've seen that same thing happen with 1911s before. Any circumstance that causes the spent shell to pause, smokestack, or otherwise hang up in the ejection port can make the case reverse and be accidentally fed back down the pipe. Puny loads, improper-weight springs, limp wrist, bent extractor, etc., or a combination can be the culprit. The first time I saw it happen, the fellow was working with light loads that dropped the brass at his feet - and the spent cases were barely hopping out of the slide ej. port before the slide began moving forward. The next time was a situation where there was some limp-wristing and smoke-stacks occurring before it happened.

The .40S&W case is straight-sided and will drop right in the chamber upside-down. So will a .45acp. A 9mm won't drop all the way in because that case is tapered and will stick out too far.

It would require hard deliberate pounding to force the case past the chamber and into the rifling. I'm sure there are yoyos who will try to do that, but it would require a concerted effort.

xtm
 

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The Senior Range safety officer that Basically Runs our range is very concerned over this safety issue
It's not a safety issue, it's a happenstance issue. Stuff happens and you simply have to watch for it just as you do improper handling. It isn't indicative of a flawed or badly executed design and hardly warrants a recall by Glock. Sometimes guns do weird stuff.

David
 

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shortranger said:
Wow! Thank God it didn't happen on a dark and stormy night!

David
Oh My Gawd David.... how tawdry of you to make such sport of VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM .....

I for one am so thankful that someone so forward thinking is looking out for the health and well being of us all.

GASTON GLOCK SHOULD BE HANGED BY A HOOK FOR THIS....

And I Mean Right Now!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok guys,
Let's take it easy

Hello Carl
I appreciate your Moderation skills. I was Just trying to let some know of a problem that Occurred that could have turned out real Bad.


I will follow up with the Glock officials when they have their Match at our Range soon and I hope to get some answers for those that are More concerned with safety Rather than sarcasm on This Issue...Hammerdown
 

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Thanks for this post!!!

I have never even heard of this kind of problem before, but have never felt that I wanted to do rapid action bottom-feeder stuff. Now I know why!
 

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m657 said:
Thanks for this post!!!

I have never even heard of this kind of problem before, but have never felt that I wanted to do rapid action bottom-feeder stuff. Now I know why!
The reason you've never heard of it before is because it is seldom happens. As already pointed out, it can happen for a number of reasons, but they involve a combination of poor loads and bad springs. It's been years since I've seen a reversed case jam, and that was also a situation involving weak reloads.

Like most of the autoloader malfunctions that overly concern people, this is a rarity. Glocks, in particular, are one of the most reliable machines around. I've had more revolvers jam up on me than Glocks - or any other autoloader, for that matter. Like many other shooters, I have several autos that have gone through multiple thousands of rounds without a single problem. Mind your ammo, mind your mags, keep the springs up, and you'll be just fine with any modern auto pistol. About the only place you regularly see an auto malfunction any more is at some sort of competition where the shooters are using heavily modified loads and guns.

David
 

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Good post - thanks and good catch....

Maybe you ought to carry a small mirror
in your range bag from now on so you
won't ever have to look down the pipe again.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As already pointed out, it can happen for a number of reasons, but they involve a combination of poor loads and bad springs. It's been years since I've seen a reversed case jam, and that was also a situation involving weak reloads.

Like most of the autoloader malfunctions that overly concern people, this is a rarity. Glocks, in particular, are one of the most reliable machines around. I've had more revolvers jam up on me than Glocks - or any other autoloader, for that matter. Like many other shooters, I have several autos that have gone through multiple thousands of rounds without a single problem.


Hello David
I will admit my Experience with Semi-Auto Hand guns is very Limited, as I Only have A Couple S&W semi-Auto's and they are both .22 Caliber, But I asked the Owner how many rounds had been through his Pistol ? and He shared with me about 250 total and all were Factory Loads. My question to you as you Obviously have Far more experience with Semi-Auto Pistols than I do is How long do these springs Normally Last ? I have seen The Team Glock Guys Blast away for Hours on end with Zero issues, is it safe to say their Pistols may have Aftermarket springs in them ? I would tend to agree with you that Re-Loads may Post an ejection problem but this shooter was shooting Factory new Loads with a Low round Pistol...nvonjvila Hammerdown
 

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Hammerdown said:
During the Process of me checking it out fully, The son tried to reach out and take the Pistol back from me, But I Held it out away from his reaching hand ...Hammerdown
That part of your story bothers me, the kid had no business trying to get the gun back. Did you set the kid straight about never doing that again?
 

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You didn't say how old the "son" was in this case so I'm presuming he was a youngster.

Glocks are reliable guns but like all semiautos are prone to do "odd things" when "limp wristed".

Two of which are rare double feeds and even rarer shell casing accrobatics described here.

I wouldn't worry too much about repete performances on a regular basis. perkgfn jvfmn;o
 
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