[Verminator]

Until I can carry a ten shot shotgun concealed......I'll stick with my Glock 30 for the most dangerous outings.

It conceals almost as well as my 36s and it blows big holes in things.

 

[Waidmann]

1. Shot placement is King.
2. Penetration is Queen.
3. Reliable function of the firearm is required to repeat 1 & 2 as often as necessary.

All the rest of it I have seen, heard or read almost continually since the early 1980's.

Of all the opinions I have sifted through I would add that of Walter D.M. "Karamojo" Bell who hunted elephants with a .303, .275 Rigby or 6.5X54MS in the heyday of that trade. Shot placement is everything. A 180 grain bullet precisely placed is fully adequate. A 500 grain bullet less properly placed can make life exciting.

 

[Verminator]

1. Shot placement is King.
2. Penetration is Queen.
3. Reliable function of the firearm is required to repeat 1 & 2 as often as necessary.

All the rest of it I have seen, heard or read almost continually since the early 1980's.

Of all the opinions I have sifted through I would add that of Walter D.M. "Karamojo" Bell who hunted elephants with a .303, .275 Rigby or 6.5X54MS in the heyday of that trade. Shot placement is everything. A 180 grain bullet precisely placed is fully adequate. A 500 grain bullet less properly placed can make life exciting.

Come on now........we are not shooting elephants.

To make the Karamojo comparison valid we'd have to be shooting our thugs in the brain with a .22 pistol.

In the Glock 30 I find total reliability in a weapon that does a little more damage than the 9mm with about the same recoil.

Yes, it is a little better. Not a lot better, but enough to possibly make a difference in that one key situation to save my life.

 

[Verminator]

 

[K22]

.38 special double taps work just fine.

 

[Verminator]

View attachment 406345

.38 special double taps work just fine.

If it can be done under the pressure of someone shooting at you........great.

But I wonder.

 

[Verminator]

There is always the question of........Why did the government law enforcement agencies go back to 9mm?

Easy. It had much more to do with recoil than stopping power.

Mostly due to a huge increase in women officers. Smaller person.......smaller hands.

Smaller hands couldn't handle the recoil of the .40 S&W.

 

[bruce]

Have shot various animals w/ revolvers, usually .38/.357 caliber. One of my church members looked at my M-1 Garand and thought it was to much gun for hogs. I didn't think so. He used a S&W Victory model in .38 Special. Must say, it worked very well for him when hunting with dogs. I ... I preferred my M-1 ... with M-2 ball ... didn't mess things up like soft-points. Besides, never had any use for hogs head! Have not yet used a 9mm or .45 ACP on live targets. Would expect either one would do as least as well as .357 Mag. from hard off the muzzle to say 15-20 yds. Beyond that, I'll probably just shoot it with my rifle. For SD/HD ... just don't think it matters. Not going to fire just one round regardless of the results of the first round. Will fire for effect until satisfied with the effect. Will expect rule 0 to apply ... i.e., 0 hits will have no effect. Like algebra ... will have to solve for the unknown ... so ... SH + EH = SS ... i.e., Shoot Handgun (whatever I find handy) + Effective Hits (you know!!!) = Situation Solved. It's the EH part that is always questionable. To many unknown variables that can affect the EH part. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[LimaCharlie]

 

[Verminator]

View attachment 406409

The Nuclear Option.

 

[BonitaBob]

View attachment 406409

Like the way you think.

 

[mkoepp]

The king is back Long Live the King

 

[BC38]

You know........a lot of people wonder why the FBI and other agencies have gone with the 9mm.

The answer is simple.......far more women agents these days and women usually have smaller and weaker hands than men.......thus the smaller 9mm works better for them.......and most men handle the smaller gun just fine.

Back in the 60s the NYPD issued Three-Inch HB Model 36s to all their female officers. Same reason.

I strongly suspect ballistics are a secondary issue.

Yup. Because multiple studies have shown that ballistics (caliber) IS a "secondary issue".
Hitting what you aim at and being able to do it repeatedly and quickly is primary.
The best SD gun for YOU is the biggest caliber gun that YOU can put 3 shots on target in 3 seconds with. If you can do that with a 9mm but not a 45, then the 9 is a better SD gun & caliber for you. Three center mass hits will almost always trump one hit and multiple misses or on hit and no follow up shots.

 

[Diabloman]

Shot placement and bullet weight/type....? fwiw

 

[StrawHat]

As many know, my choice is an N frame in 45 ACP. It is what I can handle most comfortably. Are there better choices? Not for me at this time. Ask me when I am 75.

My eldest cousin is currently preferring his 1911s to be 9mm versions. The 45 is too punishing on his arms and wrists. Also, for him the 9’s improve his hits on target because the 1911s apparently recoil less when 9mm.

Kevin

 

[Verminator]

Yup. Because multiple studies have shown that ballistics (caliber) IS a "secondary issue".
Hitting what you aim at and being able to do it repeatedly and quickly is primary.
The best SD gun for YOU is the biggest caliber gun that YOU can put 3 shots on target in 3 seconds with. If you can do that with a 9mm but not a 45, then the 9 is a better SD gun & caliber for you. Three center mass hits will almost always trump one hit and multiple misses or on hit and no follow up shots.

Yes........for the average guy there is no reason to stop and be satisfied with the 9mm if you want the best performance.

Practice until you master the .45 ACP (or something bigger, if you wish).

Maybe you will run into a situation where you have only one shot and you'll be glad you had the most destructive round for that one shot.

You might want to be like Ted Nugent and settle for nothing less than the 10mm.

I've noticed that the recoil from the Gen 4 Glocks in .45 ACP is far easier to handle than any other .45 I've used.

 

[Nrah]

The 38 special is to small and only 6 shots
The 9mm has good capacity but is to small
The 45 Is so big and has limited capacity
The 10 mm is much more powerful but agents can't deal with the recoil
The 40 SW gives more capacity. less recoil that a 10mm and almost the bullet size of a 45, but is has still has to much recoil for some new snowflakes

After all the money, testing and wasted firearm purchases lets use:

THE 9MM.

Now, since the FBI likes the 9mm again, the general public now hates the 40SW and 40 SW handguns have flooded the market.

Kinda like what is the new I Phone!

What happens, when the FIB decides "Oh, we changed our minds, we like the 40 S&W, again."?

 

[LimaCharlie]

The FBI like other federal, military, state, and local agencies buy handguns and ammo primarily on how many new recruits can qualify to be politically correct and then low cost/low bid.

 

[lawdog]

I don't worry much over the 9mm/.45 debate.
Bullet performance has come a very long way since the 1986 Miami FBI shootout.
Put a well performing bullet where it needs to go and all other discussion is moot.

 

[delcrossv]

9mm?! .45?! Wimps. BWAHAHAHA!