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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
625 PC forcing cone finish

I'm fairly new to revolvers so please bear with me. I did a search and couldn't find anything with pictures to compare to.

I went to shoot my 625 PC today, I've had it for about a year and haven't shot it much. I wasn't pleased with the accuracy at 10 yards. I took it home and cleaned it and found a buildup on the top of the forcing cone area. I thought it was odd to only see it on the top but like I said, I'm new revolvers so don't know what to expect. I also noticed that the forcing cone was really rough with tooling marks. Is the roughness typical and is it also typical to see the buildup only on the top of the forcing cone instead of all around? Some of the fur you see is from the cleaning patch. Compared to my GP100 this looks really bad. I was shooting hand loaded polymer coated Blue Bullets but for my next time out I'll shoot factory ammo and see what happens.

I'm not saying any of this has to do with the accuracy, I always blame that on myself until proven otherwise.

Thanks for your expertise.

625 Forcing cone rotate.jpg
 

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This article, with a couple of pictures, may be of interest:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t5517-revolvers-barrels-forcing-cones

Photos should show this area completely round:

My most magnificent, majestic, S&W 629 .44 mag revolver... has flamecutting? - Calguns.net

and not with the irregularities seen in your forcing cone. It's not smoothly round, there look like flats in it. It's possibly chatter, or the rifling tooling dragged against one side as it exited.

I think that this one qualifies for a return to the mother ship... Let's see what others with more experience think.
 

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+2 on the mothership. You have forcing cone abortion. Must have been a Friday at 3:59 PM job. The minute deposit on the inside of the top strap is inconsequential, just clean it well and don't tell the mothership you were shooting handloads either. They frown on that. Only factory ammo, not that it makes any difference. That forcing cone needs at least, re machined. Could have done better with a hand drill and countersink.
 

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On flamecutting of the top strap, some propellants are worse than others when it comes to flamecutting. Lil Gun comes right to mind and so does Varget when used in maximum charges. Having said that, I use both in my 44 handloads but within reasonable limits and if the cylinder to forcing cone clearance is on the low side of allowable tolerance, the flamecutting is less. IOW, if the cylinder to forcing cone clearance is excessive, flamecutting is more pronounced and rapid as is the powder blowby and balckening of the cylinder face and related parts of the revolver.
 
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Got a right hand drill and a steady hand mate? :), send it back mate...I wonder if gun ,actually think we are going to use them?

Thewelshm
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Hey people, thanks for the replies and welcome!! Perhaps I should have mentioned that I used Titegroup powder in my loads and kept it pretty low because I intend to use this for IDPA.

Anyway, as a retired Toolmaker I can't imagine what kind of tool they used to finish this cone. I was especially surprised because I paid extra for a Performance Center version and saw this. I'll contact S&W next week and report back on what they say.

Thanks for the advice!!
 

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Hey people, thanks for the replies and welcome!! Perhaps I should have mentioned that I used Titegroup powder in my loads and kept it pretty low because I intend to use this for IDPA.

Anyway, as a retired Toolmaker I can't imagine what kind of tool they used to finish this cone. I was especially surprised because I paid extra for a Performance Center version and saw this. I'll contact S&W next week and report back on what they say.

Thanks for the advice!!
So, am I and they didn't 'finish cut' it. Looks to me like initial machining only. Typically you finish cut a forcing cone with a multi flute countersink machined to the angle you want in the cone. Don't appear the final machining was ever done. Call Smith and Wesson and get a return authorization, they will send you a pre-paid Fed-Ex shipping label and you call Fed Ex to arrange a pickup. If you have the original box, ship it in that, unloaded of course and send it insured for the actual replacement value and most importantly, enclose a letter with your full name and return physical address, as well as a detailed description of EXACTLY what the issues are.

Just don't send it, no explaination included. Put it in writing and sign your name too. Don't expect it for at least a month to be returned but, the mothership will call or e-mail you when it's done and getting ready to ship back.

I've had real good results with them on my PC 460. They addressed exactly what my issue was and went above and beyond that plus they sent mine to their Maine shooting range (Houlton) and test fired it multiple time.. I know because I got it back uncleaned and my scope cross hairs were no longer parallel to the top strap. yes, I returned mine with the optics mounted. Was never an issues but then my 460 XVR is built for optics anyway (built in Picatinny rail).
 
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My opinion of S&W performance Center is low. I bought PC guns that had to be sent back, 2 out of 4.
In all actuality, mine is too. I think the 'Performance Center' deal is just a way for S&W to extract more money for a firearm.

Why do I think 'Performance Center' is nothing more than a fictitious department, a paper tiger. QC certainly isn't any better from my experience and I really don't care if those words are engraved on the gun anyway. Me, I'm into quality of build and real world performance, not words.
 

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The OP's comment about the poorly machine forcing cone not impacting accuracy is false too. When the projectile enters the barrel rifling, a smooth forcing cone insures a smooth transition and correct alignment of the projectile to the rifling. A poorly machined forcing cone will cant the projectile, causing it to enter the rifling out of alignment. A projectile travelling down the rifling canted will exit the muzzle out of square and it's flight path will also be out of alignment and will cause gross inaccuracy. Not so much with a closer range handgun but when you stretch out the flight distance, that misalignment becomes really obvious which, in part, why a bottleneck case was developed because it eliminates the forcing cone issue entirely.

So long as the projectile is seated in a bottleneck case square and straight, it will always enter the rifling straight and square and it's flight will be in alignment with the barrel, at least that is the optimum theory. Don't always play that way in real life however.
 

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I had a Performance Center 25-10 45 Colt that the forcing cone was so bad that a nationally known gunsmith couldn't clean up. Also the barrel was badly choked where it screwed into the frame.

Joe A.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I thought I'd give and update on this. First I'd like to thank all that provided ideas and input.

Short version:
I shipped this back on January 22 to S&W and they replaced the barrel and I just got it back yesterday April 10. Looks much better, more like it should. I probably won't get a chance to shoot it for a while since all of the ranges around me are closed due the Covid-19 virus. I'm glad they did this for me but when I sent it back to them it had a Hi Viz sight on it and it came back with the factory gold bead sight. I replaced it because being older the gold bead is just a little to difficult to pick up quickly.

Long version:
I sent it back with a detailed letter about my concerns, that it would not shoot a good group and the deep tooling marks in the forcing cone. After about a month I called and was told it was still being evaluated. I called again after six weeks and was told that the warranty department denied work and sent it to Performance Center. I asked why warranty denied it and was told they didn't know. Mid March I get a Sales Quotation from S&W that states "Repair misfires and repair action and test fire" for a total of $193. No mention of the forcing cone finish.
I call them and tell them I never had a misfire with this gun and the action was working fine and didn't need that work and asked again about the forcing cone. The person tells me they don't know because they don't have the notes from either group. I tell them that I sent it back with a detailed letter listing my concerns and it doesn't seem that they were addressed and request it be re-evaluated. They agree to do that and after a week I call back and they tell me the same thing, that warranty denied repair and sent to Performance Center. This time they tell me that warranty denied it because the gun was extremely dirty and had alterations. I explain that I cleaned it before I sent it back, that's how I noticed the marks in the forcing cone. As far as for alterations, I changed the sights and grips and ask if by doing this would it void the warranty and they tell me they don't know.
Now I'm getting frustrated but remain calm and tell them it sounds like they have my gun confused with someone else's and ask to speak to a supervisor. They tell me they will see if they can have someone call me. After a week I haven't heard anything and I call back and they say they thought someone had called me and that warranty had looked at it again and agreed to repair it. I asked what they were going to do and they told me they didn't know. A week later I get the gun back and it has a new barrel with a nicely finished forcing cone and an original gold bead sight instead of my Hi Viz. At this point I'm just glad to have it back and I'll buy another sight.
Amen!

Once again...thanks all for the ideas and input and stay safe and healthy!
 

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Proof again that the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing. I'm with Flip on this. the PC seems to run as it's own entity with little regard for the customer in the end.

Do you have any photos of the gun with the Hi-Vis sights on it? If you do send the photo to S&W Performance Center (hopefully you have and e-mail address) and tell them that they owe you a set of Hi-Vis sights that were not returned with the reworked pistol. They'll say they're not responsible for after market parts sent with the gun, but they should have had the courtesy to send them back with your reworked pistol.
I would press the issue all the way up the ladder if it was my gun.
 

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Geez Gearchecker, that's and excellent point! I never thought to take pictures of my gun before I sent it back and really should have. Will do that for sure in the future if I ever do send one back and take detailed pictures. I do not have an email address for the Performance Center so if someone can offer one to me in a PM I will pursue it.

A few months ago I took another gun from another manufacturer apart that I have taken apart many times to clean and put it back together with a spring slightly out of place and it locked the action (semi-auto) and I couldn't work it or get it back apart. Rather than messing with it and making matters worse since it was my carry gun I sent it back to the manufacturer fully intending to have to pay for the repair. It had an aftermarket flat trigger on it when I sent it in. They turned it around in 24 hours and I had it back within a week and while they had it they installed a factory OEM flat trigger and included an extra capacity magazine all no charge, not even shipping and sent the aftermarket trigger in the case with it. That makes me tend to want to do more business with that manufacturer.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I finally got to shoot this yesterday and the difference was like night and day. Before I sent it back I couldn't keep a 6 inch group at 7 yards. Now at 7 yards it shoots a raged hole about 2 inches in diameter. This gun went from being one of my boat anchors to one of my favorites that I love to shoot. Kind of crazy I had to go through what I did to get it to shoot like it does now but just glad it's done.
 

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Hey B,

Glad you got through this mess.

625's are so much fun!

Later, Mark
 

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Glad to hear they fixed the issues. Should have gotten away the first time.

Sorry to hear about the sights but S&W returns the firearm to stock prior to returning it.

Kevin
 
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