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Discussion Starter #1
On my 586, I've noticed that if I slowly cock the gun, the cylinder stop just stops short of falling completely into the cylinder stop notch in two of the notches. With a very small nudge of the cylinder, I can hear a "click" and see the stop fall into the notch.

This only happens on two notches.

I've looked at the extractor and there doesn't seem to be any considerable wear where the hand engages the cylinder (I can't remember what this area of the cylinder is called).

This does not seem to happen in double action, but rather only when I slowly pull the hammer back for single action.

If I thumb the hammer back somewhat "briskly", the stop will act fine (as I'm sure the momentum of the cylinder allows the stop to fully engage the notch).

Any ideas?
 

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It's a timing issue. You can leave it like this and it won't be a problem if you shoot it normally or you can have it tuned up.

First to test it again put fired cases into the chambers, sometimes this aligns the spline of the ejector correcting the carry up.

The field repair to replace the hand with an over sized one. (Being over sized means the hand it thicker not taller). The parts are under 50 bucks and the repair takes 30 minutes if there are no other issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If I leave it alone, will the problem worsen over time and possibly screw up the timing for all notches?

I'm curious to know why it only does this on the same two notches, but not the others. :?:

I can smith an auto, but these wheelguns intimidate me.
 

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LeMat said:
If I leave it alone, will the problem worsen over time and possibly screw up the timing for all notches?
The cylinder notches won't wear because of this. All this means is the cylinder is not turning far enough to lock. The gun will start spitting and the accuracy will drop off when it gets worse.
When the gun is put together, each lug is filed (fit) separately so each cylinders carry up is perfect.
What wears first is the timing lugs, the hand is heat treated and very hard. If you try and bend it, it will shatter. If you put heat to it, the temper will be lost, so the hand will wear out first.
Look in the FAQ, I put notes how to take the gun apart. When you remove the trigger the hand is attached, with a spring. Replace the hand with an oversized one and it will be fixed for your lifetime. fnovnpoa
 

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500's comments are accurate.

Just to make yourself feel better, try pulling the trigger on an empty chamber over one of these partially locked cylinder notches.

I think you'll find that the cylinder is locked when the hammer falls.

I wouldn't sweat it now. But after 5,000 rounds of IPDA level loads you may want to get it looked after.

Drew
 

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Sebago Son said:
500's comments are accurate.

try pulling the trigger on an empty chamber over one of these partially locked cylinder notches.
Correct, this is how to test for lock up. The trigger must be fully held to the rear, then you slip a range rod down the barrel. This is how to check to make sure the timing is perfect.

When the hammer is cocked, squeezing the trigger may rotate the cylinder further to cause the gun to be in time just as the hammer strikes the primer. This is more obvious with the MIM guns.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Boy, I sure wish I had read the FAQ's first. I feel like I wasted ya'll's time with a question that is answered directly in the sticky above. :oops:

It does indeed still fail to take up completely on 2 and sometimes 3 of the ratchets when dropping the hammer on empty cases. I got it to do this on DA, but that was after about 10 complete revolutions of the cylinder.

Kinda wish I would have looked it over a bit closer before the trade now. :(

But it's a 586 and I got all "Jo Jo the Circus Boy" and just had to have it. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
OK, I may very well feel like an idiot, but not sure.

Does the position of the gun affect how the cylinder stop engages the notches?

Reason I ask is that when I initially checked, I held the gun sideways as it was logically easier to see the stop engaging the notch.

Tonight I had the bright idea that maybe I should hold it normally and try it out.

Sure enough, while holding it in a normal shooting position, the stop engages each and every notch just fine.

Is it typical to get a false reading depending on the position of the gun?
 

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LeMat said:
Does the position of the gun affect how the cylinder stop engages the notches?
Yes, the way you pull the trigger will affect the way the cylinder gets indexed. Because the hand that is attached to the trigger may slightly twist in it's slot, so the carry up can change. Check out the term "sing".
 

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Discussion Starter #10
500 Magnum Nut said:
Check out the term "sing".
I actually read over that a couple of times and admittedly, I don't understand exactly what I'm looking for in regards to "sing". :oops:
 

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This is out of the FAQ :

In a panic situation, the hand could skip by a ratchet, and the gun won't fire.

Press trigger back enough to clear the cylinder stop, then spin cylinder. Listen for the hand clicking on the ratchets.

Press back and left = Left sing
Press back and right = Right sing
Press back straight = Neutral sing

If your right handed you normally pull the trigger to the right.

If no right sing: Bend hand over to right side of the window. To do this simply insert screwdriver underneath the hand and lift upward.

If no left sing: You will have to remove hand and tap it with a hammer to bend the hand over to the left side of the window.

The third way it could be out, where you can't correct the right or left sing, the hand is twisted.

Ideally, you want the gun to sing no matter how the trigger is pulled. New guns may not be adjusted proper, either. Check yours for fun...

OK I'll try and clarify this...
While you hold an empty revolver in your hand, lightly press on the trigger, just enough to disconnect the cylinder stop. Keep this pressure for this test.
Now press the trigger to the right or left then press it straight back. (In doing this you will discover the trigger has side-to-side slop in it. The slop in the trigger is also affecting the hand attached to it)
As the hand is bending along with the trigger, this is why sometimes left hand shooters have "timing" problems and when someone else looks at the gun it seems fine.

What I am trying to show (tough in print :)) is the adjustment procedure to correct this condition.

To correct the hand and make it neural, is to slightly bend the hand pin either left or right depending on the way it sings. This will adjust the hand sitting in it's slot.

For example, holding the gun with your right hand, "Press trigger back enough to clear the cylinder stop, then spin cylinder with your left hand. (Don't lessen the pressure on the trigger) Listen for the clicking sound from the ratchets, (sing). Kind of like in the western movies when they spin the cylinder...

hope this makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That makes much more sense to me now. I'm pretty new to these Smith revolvers. Thanks!

After checking this a couple of times, I get the click for each ratchet just fine it seems.

I've also spent (way too much) time checking the carry up when holding in a regular firing grip and cannot duplicate the timing issue I seemed to have when holding the gun sideways. What I've noticed is this:

1. Normal firing grip - good carry up.
2. Sideways with cylinder latch side down - three failures to lock up on same three notches.
3. Sideways with cylinder latch side up - good carry up.

No "gangsta" style shootin' with this one! :lol:
 
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