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I have a couple of boxes of 210 grain JHC from Sierra but no Sierra book. Lee's book says I can use between 9 and 10.1 grains of unique for a 210 grain jacketed bullet. Can anyone confirm this?

Any other powder options? 2400 and 4756 are on hand, as well.
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

The 210 Sierra is an excellent jacketed bullet for the .41 mag as is the Lyman 410459 Keith style cast bullet.

IMO, Unique is a jack of all trades, master of none propellant. It will give good results in a variety of application but there are invariably better choices for each. Having said that, 2400, H110 and W296 are probably the best choices for .41 magnum power level handloads. Alliant's on-line data lists 19.0 grains of 2400 for a maximum load with a 210 grain JHP. Hodgdon's on-line data lists 22.0 of H110 maximum for the same bullet. I personally use 21.7 of H110 with the Sierra JHC. It is powerful and accurate. Use standard primers with 2400 and magnum primers with H110/W296 and follow appropriate handloading practice by starting low and working up. However, keep in mind that H110/W296 is to be used in full power ammunition only. Maximum safe loads are to be reduced by 3% only. Finally, as with all full power magnum handgun, a tight bullet pull (not crimp) is required for uniform ignition and combustion.

kfjdrfirii

Bruce
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

Thank you Bruce. That's very helpful.
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

I also use a lot of Unique for lead & 2400 for the jacketed in my 41 Mags but have begun to Test with AA #9. It is comparable in speed to 2400 but seems to burn more completly. The recoil is different, more of a shove than a sharp break, if that makes any sense. Accurate Arms recomends 15.2 to 16.9 grs. Right about 16 seems to work for me.
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

I have two Sierra manuals of various vintage - there is lots of data for that bullet. Sierra lists 9.1-9.9gr Unique for that 210gr JHC with velocities from 1100-1200fps.

It also lists 16.6-18.9gr. 2400 for that same bullet for velocities from 1000-1200fps. I prefer 2400 over Unique for velocities >1000fps - 2400 generally has lower pressures at those higher velocities and doesn't get funky in hot summer temps.

xtm
 
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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

Shaun,

BruceM gave out some great info...

Whatever you do, keep in mind that H110 and W296 must have magnum primers, as suggested.

I'd also suggest never going under the recommended starting loads with these two powders. I believe in the current formulations they are identical ....

giz
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

Thanks for all the replies, folks. I have not worked with 110 to date. I ended up trying 3 different loads with this bullet.

Sierra 1978 data
10.0 grains of Unique. - 10.7 listed max.
18.0 grains of 2400 - 19.5 listed max.
12.0 grains of 4756 - 12.7 listed max.

I will update folks here when get a chance to shoot these over the chronograph.
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

Looking forward to your report.

I have some cast 215, 225 & 255 .410" SWC to load...and some 215/with gas checks.

Haven't decided on recipes yet. Your findings may help.
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

I'm expecting to run these loads over the chrony this coming Saturday. Report to follow.
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

Forester said:
Thanks for all the replies, folks. I have not worked with 110 to date. I ended up trying 3 different loads with this bullet.

Sierra 1978 data
10.0 grains of Unique. - 10.7 listed max.
18.0 grains of 2400 - 19.5 listed max.
12.0 grains of 4756 - 12.7 listed max.

I will update folks here when get a chance to shoot these over the chronograph.
I'll be very interested in the results of your chronograph testing.

But for now, which load felt best?
 

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Re: 41 Mag Load Help

carl418 said:
Forester said:
Thanks for all the replies, folks. I have not worked with 110 to date. I ended up trying 3 different loads with this bullet.

Sierra 1978 data
10.0 grains of Unique. - 10.7 listed max.
18.0 grains of 2400 - 19.5 listed max.
12.0 grains of 4756 - 12.7 listed max.

I will update folks here when get a chance to shoot these over the chronograph.
I'll be very interested in the results of your chronograph testing.

But for now, which load felt best?
I thought I really got all of it while loading the 2400 recipe. :mrgreen:

JK. I haven't shot them yet, Carl.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I finally got out this afternoon to the range to run these loads over the chronograph. Here are the results:

41 Magnum 4-5/8" Ruger Blackhawk
210 grain Sieera Jacketed Hollow Cavity Bullet (JHC) for all three loads.
Chronograph 10 feet from muzzle - Target at 15 yards.

10 grains Unique Powder
CCI primers in mixed cases
AVG=1220
ES=74
SD=23.8

What can I say about Unique. There are those that say it is the Master of None powder but my experience with it has been different. When pushed to the high range (and sometimes beyond) of it's listed charges, I have found this to be a very well performing powder. This load was no different. Recoil was what I would term moderate. You could feel it but it wasn't at all uncomfortable to me in the least. Accuracy was good at around 2 inches. Primers looked fine and brass came out easily. The max load for this combo is listed at 10.7. It would be interesting to see what another grain in this load would do in the Ruger. This was also a clean burning load. None of that dirty Unique talk with this load.

12 grains SR4756
CCI Large Pistol Primers - Mixed cases.
AVG=1220 (yup, matched the Unique load)
ES=62
SD=21.7

Again, moderate recoil and very acceptable accuracy at around 2 inches. Primers and brass were fine. very much a duplicate in feel and performance to the Unique load. I have to say, I am getting to like this powder as well.

18 Grains 2400 Powder
Winchester Large Primers-Mixed cases

AVG=1216 (seeing a pattern here?)
ES=68
SD=19.3

This load is nearly identical in performance as the first two. Acceptable accuracy. not quite as good as the others but it may not be the fault of the load so much as the shooter. I was getting a bit tired by that time. The big difference was in the recoil. This load is a fair bit heavier felt recoil to me than the first two loads. Also, a few of the primers looked a little flattened to me, though it was not extreme. Extraction was fine. All other results being nearly equal, the heavier felt recoil of this load will likely make me lean toward the other two loads first.

When I was looking at the data, I basically took the maximum load and backed it down a grain or so. It is very interesting to me that the velocity and statistics of these three loads came out so very close to each other.
 
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After reloading for awhile, I settled into just two powders for all my handgun needs. Unique and Bullseye. What one don't do, the other will. :mrgreen:

I'm an absolute convert to Unique. I use that exclusively for all my big bore guns. Couldn't be happier with it.

Now for a good ol' fashioned Rant...

It's really the bullets fault... kfjdrfirii

One of the things that irks me are folks that write about poor accuracy in some gun with Unique (or any other powder)...They make it sound like it's the powders fault...

Never forget Charles Petty writing about poor accuracy while shooting some older S&W .45 ACP revolvers....he really trashed them. Course Charlie didn't realize that the guns were rifled different back then and there was a big difference in shooting lead vs jacket bullets out of them.... :roll:

Bullets are all different. Some guns like a couple of thousandth's difference in the way the bullet is sized to improve accuracy. Or their timing is such that they don't align the cylinders to the throat of the barrel very well and shave lead. Or the bullet doesn't engage the rifling, but instead skid abit before obturating and starting to spin down the barrel because the bullet is to hard or folks overdrive the bullet. Sometimes it takes a softer brinnel scaled bullet to bring out the accuracy in the gun...

Sigh, Rant Off...

Don't even get me started about bullet-lubes.... kihfL



giz
 

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Forester,
I couldn't agree more about Unique. It's about all I use anymore. I've found, like you have, that it works just fine if you stay closer to the max rather than the minimum. Accuracy is better in the upper ranges too..

Giz,
I think you're making some good points. It seems some people would rather blame the powder than to have a look-see at what's really wrong..
 

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I'm another very happy Unique user. It has always treated me right. I never even saw the supposed "dirty" characteristic of old lot Unique. I never though of Unique as dirty. I'd always attributed the smoke and grime to bullet lube. I only learned of its "reputation" after reading the "conventional wisdom" talk of others.

For moderate to full power loadings in non-magnum revolvers and automatics it has proved to be outstanding. Perhaps my chronograph is biased. All my favorite general purpose plinking and field loads are fueled with Unique. Only a few special target loads use Bullseye.

Data for the use of Unique in the .38 Special has been emasculated in published manuals of recent times. There's nothing to recommend these modern load ranges for Unique. My personal favorite .38 Special field load went from being middle-of-the-road to being considered over maximum. This is rubbish.

In the straight-walled magnum revolver cartridges Unique can't quite deliver like slower burning powders but it isn't too shabby and makes a good emergency stand-in. Assuming good hits, a Texas white tailed deer won't know the difference between a 240-245 grain .44 Magnum bullet at 1250 fps and 1450 fps and bad hits are never appropriate with any cartridge.

I still enjoy occasional experimentation and do use several other powders on occasion. Mostly though I get by on Unique, Bullseye, and H 110 for the Magnums. I'd be willing to give up every single other handgun propellent before I'd give up Unique.
 

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I much prefer Trail Boss or Tite Group for the loads I'm using. Also developing interest in HP38 since I can't find W231 around here.....
 

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This load data was taken from two different manuals. Only maximum charges w/ 210 grain JHP were compared.

Speer #11 6" M57

8.5 gr. Unique 1081 fps (17% less velocity than H110)

17.5 gr. 2400 1297 fps

20.0 gr. H110 1305 fps

Lyman #47 4" vented test barrel

11.0 gr. Unique 1196 fps (11% less velocity than H110)

20.0 gr. 2400 1233 fps

22.9 gr. H110 1349 fps

I still stand by my original statement that there are better choices than Unique for building .41 MAGNUM ammunition as opposed to ammunition to be fired in a .41 magnum. It wasn't to say that you cannot get velocities greater than 1,000 fps with it. There are two other things to consider here. First of all, in longer barreled guns, the velocity differences between Unique and H110/W296 will become even more pronounced. Secondly, you mention getting 2" 15 yard groups with the Unique loads. If you find that acceptable, that's OK. I know for a fact that the maximum charges of H110 and a 210 grain Sierra JHC will shoot inside of 3" at 50 meters. I've done it with two different M57's and the groups were closer to 2 1/2" than 3". I have friends who have had similar experiences.

In essence, while you may get good results with Unique, you can do much better with other propellants. That includes maximum velocities and accuracy at maximum velocity. That moves Unique out of the Master catagory of this trade and into the Jack column to me.

fhfjjjj

Bruce
 

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WOW! This is a great thread! I've been reloading for 20 years now, and every year I learn that there is yet MORE that I still haven't learned!

Something else that I really appreciate about this thread...so many differing opinons, and all of them presented gracefully and respectfully!

Thanks to all of you for making this such a great thread!
 
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