[shedhorn]

First... What Hair Trigger said above in his reply, #18

Second, it's your gun, and experimenting or modifying it is perfectly OK, a lot of now famous marksmen modified their competition guns. and wrote about their experiences, some good, some not so successful.

Having said that, if/when you sell the gun, an SAO hammer will not make your gun worth more. Likely it will be worth less to a collector, because it is no longer in original condition. Even the full kit will not make the gun worth more than the sum of the value in original configuration and an original kit.


Collectors will not pay extra for a Model 14 SA, unless there is evidence it came that way from the factory. Evidence, meaning a box with the correct label, or a factory letter.

In general, a collector will only recognize a gun as having the 3Ts, if there is proof on the box label, or a factory letter. Example:
View attachment 596854

The Model 14 revolvers which were cataloged separately cost about $10 more in the early 60's ($90 compared to $81). More, meaning compared to other 6" revolvers favored by target shooters, like the K-22, K-32, and the base K-38. The difference in price was not because of the single action trigger, but because the SA configuration included a target trigger and a target hammer.

Btw, the kits can be installed (by a gunsmith) on ANY K-frame with a compatible action configuration, not just a Model 14.
View attachment 596855 View attachment 596856

Thanks Pete! You covered a lot of what I was looking for. If upgrading to a SAO trigger won't add value to the gun and won't improve the single action performance in anyway, then I'll just stick to experimenting with the parts I have.

 

[shedhorn]

I took another look at my Model 14 and I don't think it's the double action sear after all. The hammer fit is exceptionally tight. So tight that if I even snug up the grips too much it transfers too much pressure through the sideplate. I tightened the sideplate to just lightly snug and even that will do it.

Is that common with target hammers?

 

[Hair Trigger]

..... because I don't know what I'm doing.

Nothing personal, but I think this is the operative theme for this entire thread. Very few internal parts of a revolver are drop-in fit and they need fine tuning to fit together and operate properly. You've asked very basic questions about how these parts all fit together and why they do or don't work. I've been shooting and cleaning and working on S&W revolvers since 1977 and there are many things I still don't attempt because I don't have the fine tools to do the work. A couple of things I learned long ago was, if it works, don't fix it. If it doesn't work and you don't have the tools or skills to fix it, take it to someone who does.

 

[shedhorn]

Nothing personal, but I think this is the operative theme for this entire thread. Very few internal parts of a revolver are drop-in fit and they need fine tuning to fit together and operate properly. You've asked very basic questions about how these parts all fit together and why they do or don't work. I've been shooting and cleaning and working on S&W revolvers since 1977 and there are many things I still don't attempt because I don't have the fine tools to do the work. A couple of things I learned long ago was, if it works, don't fix it. If it doesn't work and you don't have the tools or skills to fix it, take it to someone who does.

lol... I know its the operative, I'm the one who said it.

Finding someone who knows what they're doing is about as difficult as trying to figure it out yourself.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Finding someone who knows what they're doing is about as difficult as trying to figure it out yourself.

Then buy The S&W Revolver Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It will tell you what you need to do to fix your revolver problems.

 

[shedhorn]

Then buy The S&W Revolver Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It will tell you what you need to do to fix your revolver problems.

Sorry... I thought this being a S&W discussion forum I might get some useful tips, tricks, etc. from experienced pro's who enjoy talking about S&W revolvers.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Excuse me but I thought you wanted someone who knows what she is doing. Jerry Kuhnhausen is about as knowledgeable as anyone and he wrote down what he knows so others can benefit. Most of the members here want to help but it is hard to diagnose an issue without having the gun in hand, in addition to talking to someone who is conversant with the gun they are seeking help on. Members here will bend over backwards to help anyone, but folks can help us help them by educating themselves on the functioning of the guns they own.

 

[shedhorn]

Excuse me but I thought you wanted someone who knows what she is doing. Jerry Kuhnhausen is about as knowledgeable as anyone and he wrote down what he knows so others can benefit. Most of the members here want to help but it is hard to diagnose an issue without having the gun in hand, in addition to talking to someone who is conversant with the gun they are seeking help on. Members here will bend over backwards to help anyone, but folks can help us help them by educating themselves on the functioning of the guns they own.

It was a sincere sorry. I was looking for some discussion, that's not really the thing here apparently... got it. I'll get the book.

Thanks.

 

[PeteB]

I took another look at my Model 14 and I don't think it's the double action sear after all. The hammer fit is exceptionally tight. So tight that if I even snug up the grips too much it transfers too much pressure through the sideplate. I tightened the sideplate to just lightly snug and even that will do it.

Is that common with target hammers?

As far as I know, it is not common. I am not a gunsmith, and I don't even play one on youtube, but something seems wrong. To the best of my knowledge, pressure through the sideplate is not usually the issue when replacing a hammer, whether it needs fitting or not. I do agree that replacement parts often do not fit older revolvers, in a drop-in fashion.

 

[Hair Trigger]

Finding someone who knows what they're doing is about as difficult as trying to figure it out yourself.

But worth it in the end, because you haven't screwed anything up by fumbling through it.

 

[shedhorn]

But worth it in the end, because you haven't screwed anything up by fumbling through it.

Sure... after I've paid a few, during the search, who screwed it up as they fumbled through it.

And what have I screwed up? I stopped short of doing anything irreversible. It'll take 20 minutes to put the old parts back in. Done.

 

[PeteB]

Does "exceptionally tight" mean it is binding against the sideplate, or does it mean is does not fit in some other respect?

When a new part does not fit, it usually means it is oversized, and one has to remove some metal from it, not from the parts you are keeping. As far as any book goes, it often tells you what to do, but not how to do it. Otherwise nobody would ever have to go to school, or have an internship or any kind of training in person.

 

[shedhorn]

Does "exceptionally tight" mean it is binding against the sideplate, or does it mean is does not fit in some other respect?

When a new part does not fit, it usually means it is oversized, and one has to remove some metal from it, not from the parts you are keeping. As far as any book goes, it often tells you what to do, but not how to do it. Otherwise nobody would ever have to go to school, or have an internship or any kind of training in person.

It assembles with no issues. Sideplate goes on, all the surfaces line up flush... by all appearances, everything is fine. But if I tighten down the sideplate screws just a smidge too much, even without bottoming out the screws, then the hammer gets gummed up. Can't pull pull it back and fire SA. Sure can't in DA.

Back the sideplate screws out a bit, and it works. But then tighten up the stocks too much, same thing happens.

 

[Hair Trigger]

It assembles with no issues. Sideplate goes on, all the surfaces line up flush... by all appearances, everything is fine. But if I tighten down the sideplate screws just a smidge too much, even without bottoming out the screws, then the hammer gets gummed up. Can't pull pull it back and fire SA. Sure can't in DA.

Back the sideplate screws out a bit, and it works. But then tighten up the stocks too much, same thing happens.

When the hammer is tight (side plate screws or stocks full tight), how hard is the thumb latch to move to unlock the cylinder? There is hideously little side clearance inside the frame. I had some issues on a M48 that functioned okay, but the thumb latch was difficult to move and would bind and prevent the cylinder from opening. Same thing as your gun, when I loosened the side plate, it was just fine. Turned out to be the bolt was slightly out of spec and was too thick for its slot. I stoned it and then polished it, and it is fine now. First, re-confirm you have the correct part for your gun. Try snugging the side plate just enough to make the hammer difficult to move without locking up the action. Cycle the hammer several times, then remove the side plate and hammer. Look for signs of scrubbing on both sides of the hammer, and on the inside of the side plate. Since your gun operated properly with the original hammer, my guess is the new hammer needs to have some material removed by careful stoning. You do that similar to honing a knife blade edge, but make sure the hammer remains perfectly flat on the stone and test fit it frequently, should you choose to try it. Stone only the portion inside the side plate so as to not damage the case color on the exposed part of the hammer.

 

[StrawHat]

The hammer should not be so wide as to interfere with the action. Are you sure it is for a K frame? And from the same era as your frame? The factory would produce batches of hammers and triggers at a time, to specifications determined many decades earlier, so they would fit in all the K frames produced. The hand fitting was primarily the contact points between the hammer and trigger not the hammer and frame.

Without seeing your revolver, it would be very hard to be able to ascertain the problem.

Where are you located? There are still a few qualified revolver people around.

Kevin

 

[shedhorn]

Thanks guys. When I get a chance, I'm going to pull it out and measure the width of the hammer and take a closer look at what Hair Trigger suggested. It certainly looks like the correct part (when compared to the old hammer). And I'm not absolutely sure when it was made, I bought it off eBay. Would a larger hammer, like from an N frame, even come close to fitting (i.e. is it possible that's what it could be)?

 

[PeteB]

I don't know if a larger hammer would fit, but it probably would not work right... they are not the same size and shape. The N frame hammer nose is a little bigger, the dimensions front to back are a little greater, and the shape in front, below the rivet of the hammer nose, is different from the K-frame hammer. See circled area in attached pic of N target hammer:

The hammer can rub on the inside upper edge of the sideplate, even if it was fitted in the factory, and all original. Normally this does not interfere with cocking or pulling the trigger, but it does leave rub marks.

The reason why has to do with the process used to fit the sideplate. The inside edge of the sideplate gets inset a little deeper than the rest of the frame, and the right side of the hammer rubs against it. Sometimes you can see the difference with the naked eye (barely), when sighting from the rear and top, with the hammer cocked. It becomes more noticeable when you cock the hammer with sideplate loose, then tighten the side plate as far as possible, and pull the trigger while letting the hammer down slowly with your thumb.

No way to tell if this is what's happening from online though, and I am reluctant to take you off on a tangent. In other words, just because one thing that can bind up the trigger, does not mean it is the only thing, or your specific issue.