[shedhorn]

A couple questions for the forum.

1. Does anyone know what year the 3Ts were first introduced? Mostly want to know as it relates to K Frames... Model 14s and Model 17s (if that matters).
2. Does installing a Target Hammer and Target Trigger require any hand fitting or are they mostly drop in parts?

Thanks!

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the cotton and peanut covered plains of the Wiregrass! Well, for the K Masterpiece models, 1949 the target hammer was introduced, 1951 the target grips were introduced and 1955 the target trigger was introduced. So, I suppose 1955 was the earliest your could get those 3 options.

You might get lucky and have a previously fitted (used) pair that drop in, but a new hammer, at least, needs the double action sear fitted.

 

[shedhorn]

Thanks!

If not fitted, will they not fit to the point the gun won't reassemble or will it reassemble but not perform as well / smooth as it should?

 

[Wiregrassguy]

A new double action sear is slightly long because it needs to be stoned to work smoothly off the trigger. So, it may bind and prevent the full cocking and release of the hammer. What I have done that worked successfully is to remove the sear from my old hammer and put it one the new one. Since it was already fitted to the trigger, that usually works to make the action function. But, it still may need some light stoning to smooth it out. If you plan to work on your gun's action, or anything else, I recommend getting the S&W Revolvers Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen

 

[shedhorn]

Excellent, I already have that book! Maybe I should take some time to read it lol

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Excellent, I already have that book! Maybe I should take some time to read it lol

Duh!

 

[PeteB]

In fairness, many people say they have the book...but few actually claim to have read it.
The pics are nice to look at though...

 

[1911]

I own the SCSW 4th Edition as well as the SCSW 3rd Edition.

I'd say no one reads the entire book. We mostly read about the stuff that we buy and own.

 

[WendyZXZ]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[PeteB]

In the 1960's and 1970's, the Model 14 SA and the Model 25 both shipped in a standard 3T configuration. As far as I know, on other revolvers, target hammer/trigger and target grips were an option that one ordered at an extra charge, either instead of, or separately from the base gun.

There were two version of the model 14, the base DA/SA, like all the other guns, and a Single action version, called K-38 Masterpiece Single Action Model 14. In 1961 it cost about $90, compared to $81 for the one without the 3T's. A whopping nine dollar difference (!).

In 1970, the target version of the Model 14 was still listed under the same name, but it was shown in the catalog with SB magnas. The Model 25 was still pictured with the 3Ts including non-diamond target grips with a small football relief. Other N-frames were still pictured with diamond target grips, which is probably why the SCSW 4th edition says that N-frames shipped with diamond grips for another couple years, after diamond grips went away on the K-frame.

By the mid 1970's the Model 27 started shipping with football relief target stocks.

There was also a Model 35, "1953 .22/32 Target", which I don't know much about. It had a 6" barrel, Patridge front sight, adjustable rear sight, caliber .22 lr, magna stocks, and weighed only 25 oz. It was one of the Kit gun series, built first on the improved I frame, and later the J frame, pics on p 242 of the SCSW 4th edition.

...just trying to show I really DO read... well, sometimes, anyway (unless there are too many notes ).

 

[highpower]

As far as I know, on other revolvers, target hammer/trigger and target grips were an option that one ordered at an extra charge, either instead of, or separately from the base gun.

This is my understanding also. I have two Model 19's, one is still in the original box and the label clearly shows where it shipped with the three T's. The other no longer has the box, but it is a plain Jane version with standard Magna stocks, and hammer and trigger.

Fancy version

Standard version:

 

[Curt360]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

 

[Hair Trigger]

In the 1960's and 1970's, the Model 14 SA and the Model 25 both shipped in a standard 3T configuration. As far as I know, on other revolvers, target hammer/trigger and target grips were an option that one ordered at an extra charge, either instead of, or separately from the base gun.


By the mid 1970's the Model 27 started shipping with football relief target stocks.

Nice synopsis. During the period 1975 through 1980, M27-2's came in 3T configuration from the factory. The large magnum target revolvers (M57 and M29) were always 3T.

 

[oldgrowth]

....... I have two Model 19's, one is still in the original box and the label clearly shows where it shipped with the three T's. .....

We need a drooling emoji.....

 

[shedhorn]

A new double action sear is slightly long because it needs to be stoned to work smoothly off the trigger. So, it may bind and prevent the full cocking and release of the hammer. What I have done that worked successfully is to remove the sear from my old hammer and put it one the new one. Since it was already fitted to the trigger, that usually works to make the action function. But, it still may need some light stoning to smooth it out. If you plan to work on your gun's action, or anything else, I recommend getting the S&W Revolvers Shop Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen

If I were to get a single action hammer, should that drop in without fitting? Or I guess conversely, if I got a double action hammer and just removed the sear, would that work?

I'm looking at upgrading both the hammer and the trigger so I guess the sear will need to be fitted. Reading up on it, sounds like I'll probably screw that up lol

 

[Wiregrassguy]

If I were to get a single action hammer, should that drop in without fitting? Or I guess conversely, if I got a double action hammer and just removed the sear, would that work?

Probably.

 

[shedhorn]

Is the only difference between the SAO Model 14s that shipped as such from the factory, and the SA/DA Model 14s, the hammer? Or are there other parts that are different from the two?

Does removing the DA sear improve or benefit the single action trigger pull/feel in anyway?

I'm mostly interested in target, bullseye, etc type shooting. I don't have much of a need for DA shooting.

 

[Hair Trigger]

Is the only difference between the SAO Model 14s that shipped as such from the factory, and the SA/DA Model 14s, the hammer? Or are there other parts that are different from the two?

Does removing the DA sear improve or benefit the single action trigger pull/feel in anyway?

I'm mostly interested in target, bullseye, etc type shooting. I don't have much of a need for DA shooting.

Even if you installed a hammer that was SAO, you still have to manually cock it, just as you would a DA/SA revolver to shoot it SA. If your M14 has a nice single action break, why bother changing it? The DA mechanism has no effect on SA function, because you bypass it when you pull the hammer back to SA.

 

[shedhorn]

I took the plunge and swapped out my hammer and trigger for the target versions and the gun is behaving exactly as wiregrass suggested it might in post #4 if the DA sear hasn't been fit to the trigger (which it hasn't been), so I'm guessing that's the problem. I want to avoid honing on the DA sear if possible because I don't know what I'm doing. I'll probably take it back down later, remove the sear, and see if that clears up the problem.

I'm just wondering if there is any appreciable difference between guns with an SAO hammer and those with SA/DA hammers but where the DA sear has been removed. Seem like the SAO guns go for more so might be worth upgrading to an SAO hammer, it if I decide to sell the gun down the road. Just not sure if there are any other differences between SAO guns and SA/DA guns.

 

[PeteB]

First... What Hair Trigger said above in his reply, #18

Second, it's your gun, and experimenting or modifying it is perfectly OK, a lot of now famous marksmen modified their competition guns. and wrote about their experiences, some good, some not so successful.

Having said that, if/when you sell the gun, an SAO hammer will not make your gun worth more. Likely it will be worth less to a collector, because it is no longer in original condition. Even the full kit will not make the gun worth more than the sum of the value in original configuration and an original kit.


Collectors will not pay extra for a Model 14 SA, unless there is evidence it came that way from the factory. Evidence, meaning a box with the correct label, or a factory letter.

In general, a collector will only recognize a gun as having the 3Ts, if there is proof on the box label, or a factory letter. Example:

The Model 14 revolvers which were cataloged separately cost about $10 more in the early 60's ($90 compared to $81). More, meaning compared to other 6" revolvers favored by target shooters, like the K-22, K-32, and the base K-38. The difference in price was not because of the single action trigger, but because the SA configuration included a target trigger and a target hammer.

Btw, the kits can be installed (by a gunsmith) on ANY K-frame with a compatible action configuration, not just a Model 14.