[Appleycl]

Morning,

Thought I’d be the latest to try identifying an inherited gem so that I too can bring this cherished heirloom back to pristine condition. I believe it to be a pre-or near WW2 K frame 38 Special. It has a 6” barrel, 11&13 (I think it is an & between the 11 and 13?), written behind the swing out cylinder, 6757xx serial number, pretty little silver S&W badges on the knurled wood grips with a diamond shaped in the centre of the knurling.

Most of the blueing has been lightly polished off to remove rust so it needs redoing, by me if anyone has any hot blueing tips please ? An original side plate would be good too please.

That do ? Thanks. C

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Your .38 Military & Police revolver with SN 675xxx was made in the middle of the 1930 decade. Is there a small logo on the left side of the frame? The logo moved to the sideplate in 1935 so that could tell you on which side of the midway point your gun falls. Checkered, diamond centered, round top walnut grips with silver medallions were standard on these guns. You may be able to find a replacement sideplate on eBay or from Gun Parts & Firearm Accessories | Numrich Gun Parts. I don't know if they will ship to Canada, though. You want to make sure you get one with 4 screws so it will match up with your frame. It will not be a simple drop in because the sideplate was swaged to the frame and only closely fits its original frame. As far as rebluing, if you want a hot blue, you should take it to a commercial bluing operation. If you want to cold blue it, Blue Wonder makes a good bluing/blacking kit and I've heard that Brownells Oxpho Blue is good. Good luck!

 

[Appleycl]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Your .38 Military & Police revolver with SN 675xxx was made in the middle of the 1930 decade. Is there a small logo on the left side of the frame? The logo moved to the sideplate in 1935 so that could tell you on which side of the midway point your gun falls. Checkered, diamond centered, round top walnut grips with silver medallions were standard on these guns. You may be able to find a replacement sideplate on eBay or from Gun Parts & Firearm Accessories | Numrich Gun Parts. I don't know if they will ship to Canada, though. You want to make sure you get one with 4 screws so it will match up with your frame. It will not be a simple drop in because the sideplate was swaged to the frame and only closely fits its original frame. As far as rebluing, if you want a hot blue, you should take it to a commercial bluing operation. If you want to cold blue it, Blue Wonder makes a good bluing/blacking kit and I've heard that Brownells Oxpho Blue is good. Good luck!

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Your .38 Military & Police revolver with SN 675xxx was made in the middle of the 1930 decade. Is there a small logo on the left side of the frame? The logo moved to the sideplate in 1935 so that could tell you on which side of the midway point your gun falls. Checkered, diamond centered, round top walnut grips with silver medallions were standard on these guns. You may be able to find a replacement sideplate on eBay or from Gun Parts & Firearm Accessories | Numrich Gun Parts. I don't know if they will ship to Canada, though. You want to make sure you get one with 4 screws so it will match up with your frame. It will not be a simple drop in because the sideplate was swaged to the frame and only closely fits its original frame. As far as rebluing, if you want a hot blue, you should take it to a commercial bluing operation. If you want to cold blue it, Blue Wonder makes a good bluing/blacking kit and I've heard that Brownells Oxpho Blue is good. Good luck!

Thank you Guy,

That is most impressive, and yes, the little crown logo is on the left hand side with what looks like an E 4 below it and a funny M below that, all of which is up where the hammer strikes. So that would make it pre-1935 then would it ?

The side plates aren’t case hardened are they, in other words, I should be able to dress one myself to fit snuggly yes ?

Have currently used some de-activated Victory model parts to test which model it was, hence my guess as to it being earlier than that. Do you know if its proper parts would have been of better quality at all please as these would seem to hint at wartime quality rather than the refined I would expect of S&W (not that I’m any expert of course)

Hot bluing would be my preference if that is what was done originally, and living in the mountains am happy to learn and practice beforehand to get it right.

Thanks again for your awesome knowledge

Best regards. C

 

[Wiregrassguy]

C, the stampings you describe are not the S&W logo. It sounds like British proof marks. I suspect your gun was used in WWII and is a British Service Revolver. Before S&W began production of the .38 S&W (.380 Webley) BSR with a 5" barrel, Brittian was buying up any M&P they could get their hands on. I suspect yours was one of those since it has a 6" barrel and chambers .38 Special. Are there proof marks on the cylinder and barrel? Can you post pictures of your gun. That would help us help you.

A hot blue operation is pretty involved. Probably the next best is a rust blue which can be fairly easily implemented in the back yard. There are numerous articles and YouTube videos on how to do this. You might check it out.

The sideplate is not case hardened, but it is swaged. It is likely you will have to file/sand interferences to get another one to fit.

 

[Appleycl]

C, the stampings you describe are not the S&W logo. It sounds like British proof marks. I suspect your gun was used in WWII and is a British Service Revolver. Before S&W began production of the .38 S&W (.380 Webley) BSR with a 5" barrel, Brittian was buying up any M&P they could get their hands on. I suspect yours was one of those since it has a 6" barrel and chambers .38 Special. Are there proof marks on the cylinder and barrel? Can you post pictures of your gun. That would help us help you.

A hot blue operation is pretty involved. Probably the next best is a rust blue which can be fairly easily implemented in the back yard. There are numerous articles and YouTube videos on how to do this. You might check it out.

The sideplate is not case hardened, but it is swaged. It is likely you will have to file/sand interferences to get another one to fit.

Thanks again Guy,

In all likelihood then it’s a post 1935 model and the S&W logo would have been on the original (now missing) side plate ?

Photo attached, there are no other stamps like the one I described, the 11&13 mentioned earlier may be 11013, it is repeated on the arm of the swing out cylinder.

Whatever it takes to make it as good as new and as original as possible

Best regards. C

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Yes, it appears to be a post 1935 model. The number inside the yoke are assembly numbers used during manufacturing to keep fitted parts together. They offer no insight on the identity of the gun. The finish was scrubbed off..pretty roughly...at some point. I would not recommend bluing it. Instead, I would bead blast it and do a phosphate finish (Parkerize it). If you don't have access to a sandblast machine, just soak the gun, fully immersed, in white vinegar for about 15 minutes then wipe off the remaining bluing. You should be able to Parkerize it at that point after cleaning it thoroughly with acetone to remove any oil. Plug the barrel and cylinder chambers with wood plugs before dunking it. You can make a correct solution from alkali batteries. Look on YouTube for instructions. This finish will not be original as your vintage of BSR was blued, not Parked. However, S&W shifted to a "Black Magic" phosphate finish in 1942 and used that for the remainder of the war...so, it will be close. As an example, here is my Navy marked Victory that was refinished in my backyard.

 

[bearcat6]

I rust blued this Mauser on my kitchen stove using Brownells' rust blue solution. Preparation is everything if you are doing this,

 

[Appleycl]

Yes, it appears to be a post 1935 model. The number inside the yoke are assembly numbers used during manufacturing to keep fitted parts together. They offer no insight on the identity of the gun. The finish was scrubbed off..pretty roughly...at some point. I would not recommend bluing it. Instead, I would bead blast it and do a phosphate finish (Parkerize it). If you don't have access to a sandblast machine, just soak the gun, fully immersed, in white vinegar for about 15 minutes then wipe off the remaining bluing. You should be able to Parkerize it at that point after cleaning it thoroughly with acetone to remove any oil. Plug the barrel and cylinder chambers with wood plugs before dunking it. You can make a correct solution from alkali batteries. Look on YouTube for instructions. This finish will not be original as your vintage of BSR was blued, not Parked. However, S&W shifted to a "Black Magic" phosphate finish in 1942 and used that for the remainder of the war...so, it will be close. As an example, here is my Navy marked Victory that was refinished in my backyard.

Thanks again

Great ideas, thanks. Will continue my possibly forlorn quest to blue it properly for a while longer yet though, and am more than happy to do whatever prepping it takes too, be that cleaning, polishing, degreasing and all.

Just the question about the comparative quality of the circa 1935 internal parts versus the Victory parts I’ve used for now. Any idea if the originals would have been more finely finished at all please ? Suspect they will have been so will likely need to get them along with the side plate.

Btw, as a newbie to this forum am somewhat blown away by how brilliant everyone is, thanks

Ciao for now. C

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Now you've done it! Everybody's heads are going to swell up bigger than the Big Guy's bank account after a China deal.

You should be fine using WWII parts. There isn't an appreciable change in quality to worry about.

 

[Appleycl]

Now you've done it! Everybody's heads are going to swell up bigger than the Big Guy's bank account after a China deal.

You should be fine using WWII parts. There isn't an appreciable change in quality to worry about.

Looks like Brownells do a hot bluing kit, so unless anyone has bad stories about not making a quality job with their products, then I’ll jump in with both feet on doing it with that
Thanks again. C

 

[Appleycl]

Looks like Brownells do a hot bluing kit, so unless anyone has bad stories about not making a quality job with their products, then I’ll jump in with both feet on doing it with that
Thanks again. C

...and we did confirm that this is a K frame model too didn’t we ?

 

[Absalom]

The markings on the left top frame are indeed British military acceptance marks from the Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield, where most foreign purchases before Lend-Lease were inspected.

The 675-range serial puts it late in the 1930s, possibly as late as 1939, so as Guy said, it was likely transferred with the earliest British purchases at the war's beginning.

 

[Appleycl]

The markings on the left top frame are indeed British military acceptance marks from the Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield, where most foreign purchases before Lend-Lease were inspected.

The 675-range serial puts it late in the 1930s, possibly as late as 1939, so as Guy said, it was likely transferred with the earliest British purchases at the war's beginning.

Brilliant, thank you,

Would be great if I could have similar success with finding an original late 30s K frame S&W side plate for it now too so that I can get started on my hot gun bluing adventure...

 

[Wiregrassguy]

I believe this will work.

 

[Appleycl]

I believe this will work.

Your legendary status is secure, a star as always, thanks

 

[Appleycl]

Your legendary status is secure, a star as always, thanks

However, at risk of feeling guilty for benefitting again from the collective forum knowledge, are exploded view diagrams of this model easy enough to come by too at all please ? Will need to strip it down completely for bluing so would like to ready myself for a tidy reassembly too. Thanks

 

[Wiregrassguy]

If you go back to Numrich, you will find exploded drawings for every gun they sell parts for. Alternately, you can buy The S&W Revolver-A Repair Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It has all the S&W revolvers with schematic drawings and detailed instructions on how to work on them.

 

[Appleycl]

If you go back to Numrich, you will find exploded drawings for every gun they sell parts for. Alternately, you can buy The S&W Revolver-A Repair Manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen. It has all the S&W revolvers with schematic drawings and detailed instructions on how to work on them.

Book ordered, thanks

 

[Wiregrassguy]

What do you mean "back ordered?" Just copy the .jpg file to your computer.

 

[Appleycl]

What do you mean "back ordered?" Just copy the .jpg file to your computer.

My words here read ‘Book ordered’ ? Will gladly download a jpeg too