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Discussion Starter #1
I have a pre model 10 marked 38 S&W ctg on the barrel serial # 7462XX is this a 38 200 made for the British. All numbers match, has a swivel on the butt. The finish looks to be parkerized is this correct. Sorry I don't have pictures. Working on that. Any info on the year made. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I will look for the proof marks, where might they be. There is a small P on the butt but not part of the serial #.
 

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Willie J ,my old 38 BSR is just a few hundred newer than yours. Mine is 747073 and has no Brit. marks except for the small p on the butt. Blue commercial finish and diamond checkerd grips and case colored hammer and hammer was how it shipped.
Abslom estimated mine was shipped in late 40 or 41. It probably never made it to England.
Cliff
 

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Discussion Starter #7
No proof marks,grips are checkered with silver medallion, any thoughts on the parkerized finish, was this ever done from the factory. Still working on pictures, will have to wait till the daughter comes by to help the old man.
 

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As Cliff said, at this serial they still were more than half a year away from abandoning the commercial blue finish, so if yours is parkerized, that would be a refinish.

The Australians parkerized a lot of these in that general serial range in the 1950s, but there would be plenty of markings on the right side attesting to that. See below, 767114 originally shipped 5/12/41 and refurbished in Australia in 1954.

The factory would be very unlikely to have done the job on your gun.
 

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SAcontract_red.jpg The WWII era begins with serials above 685000, the first South African order. Somewhere around 990000 the slick grips and phosphate finish become universal. I am going to join the group that tends to believe yours was likely blued initially. Look on the inside and see if your grips are original. You might also look near the barrel serial for a B (blued). The P is for the military proof that the Brits delegated to S&W.

With BSRs one can not claim too many universal rules. There have been guns in the 770000 range found with U.S. Property marks. Other inconsistencies point toward the notion of serial numbers being reclaimed out of sequence. So you can't say anything with certainty without a factory letter which likely either indicate the British Purchasing Commission or its successor, other than of course the day it left S&W, finish, grips etc.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I've read that the Lend Lease Smiths didn't have any British markings until they were later sold to the civilian market, because they actually weren't British guns, belonging still to the U.S. when "loaned" to be used in service.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I've read that the Lend Lease Smiths didn't have any British markings until they were later sold to the civilian market, because they actually weren't British guns, belonging still to the U.S. when "loaned" to be used in service.
That is entirely correct for Lend-lease guns stamped with a US property mark on top, which started in late 1941.

The OP’s gun, however, just like the Australian I posted earlier, falls into earlier 1941 when revolvers were still purchased by Allied countries and generally received acceptance and property marks when they arrived in Britain, Canada, and other destinations.
 

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The OP’s gun, however, just like the Australian I posted earlier, falls into earlier 1941 when revolvers were still purchased by Allied countries and generally received acceptance and property marks when they arrived in Britain, Canada, and other destinations.
Bet those countries later kicked themselves for buying what, had they waited a little longer, they'd have received for free. "Lend/Lease" is itself a misnomer, if "lease" is understood to mean there was supposed to be payment for the use of these goods; it never happened. It was all a gift from Uncle Sam, or rather, FDR.
 

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Bet those countries later kicked themselves for buying what, had they waited a little longer, they'd have received for free. "Lend/Lease" is itself a misnomer, if "lease" is understood to mean there was supposed to be payment for the use of these goods; it never happened. It was all a gift from Uncle Sam, or rather, FDR.
Not really. The terms were indeed rather generous, and any war material that was “used up”, like ammunition, or destroyed in battle, was written off as having been expended in the defense of the US in a larger sense, which it was.

But Lend-Lease was subject to rather complex repayment arrangements, wrapping in non-monetary things like base rights. It varied depending on the country. We didn’t get much back from the USSR, not surprisingly. Britain on the other hand made its final payment of about $80 million in 2006.
 

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Britain on the other hand made its final payment of about $80 million in 2006.
That was not for Lend Lease--it was for loans made AFTER the war. And even for the post-war loans, it's hard to believe interest was added to the principal, or the sum owed would have been greater than that.
 

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The "not free" part of Lend/Lease was that, within 6 months after the end of the war, the remaining items had to be either:
1. purchased
2. returned
3. documented as expended before the end of the 6-month period.

There are records of escort carriers of the RN dumping their entire load of US-built aircraft overboard so as to count in #3 above - the US had declined to accept them back, as they were "obsolete" - and the UK certainly was not going to pay for them.
 

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One of the places we got a lease on, in exchange for 50 obsolete destroyers was the base a Goose Bay Labrador. It later became a SAC base and was the first place in Canada that US nuclear weapons were stationed. I lived there for 6 months in I believe 1966. I was only about 3, maybe 4. Its one of the few places in north America with a runway long enough for the space shuttle to have landed on and was an alternate if others became unavailable. We gave it back to Canada in 79-80. There were bases in the Caribbean that were also leased to us as part of the destroyer deal.
Starting in 1939, after Poland was invaded, and Prior to lend-lease we had a cash and carry policy. If warring countries paid cash for American arms, and shipped them on non-American flagged ships, the sale was allowed. In 1940, after Dunkirk, the British had lost much of their gear and were running short on gold reserves. Around this time Roosevelt came up with the idea for lend-lease. It took a while to sell to congress but by March of 41 is was signed into law. One little know fact is that between cash & carry, and lend -lease, and extending into the lend-lease time period we actually traded material for intellectual property rights and british military technology secrets that they couldn't exploit. They gave us a jet engine design, the cavity magnetron, needed for high quality radar, and the design of the VT fuse to name a few.
All in all in was much cheaper than a Europe and British Isles under nazi occupation and control
 

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All in all in was much cheaper than a Europe and British Isles under nazi occupation and control
Why was that inevitable? Poland was invaded ONLY because Hitler entered into a co-conspiracy with FDR's favorite Uncle Joe to divide up Poland--without Uncle Joe's consent & cooperation, & stab in Poland's back while the Poles were preoccupied with their western frontier, Hitler's aggression would probably never have occurred. Shall we forget (along with what happened in the Katyn Forest, masterfully suppressed by Allied propaganda) that it was Britain & France that first declared war on Germany, not the other way around? And even after that, Germany took no military action against either UNTILL there was an unprovoked French attack on German forces Sept. 7th.

By no means am I defending Hitler's aggression--but let's get our facts straight. There's no evidence to support the claim that invading Britain & France (esp. France, which at the time had the largest army in Europe) was part of Hitler's original plan, although that of course changed after the French attack, & Britain's dispatch of an Army to France. That plan always was, despite the pact with Uncle Joe, to expand EAST, not West.
 

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Willie J.... I've got 7365XX. Mine has a "V" preceeding the lanyard hole. Tons of proof marks. Mine was cut down to 4" and for extra measure of chincy, Someone nickled it. Also removed and filled in the swivel hole.
Still, fun to shoot.... nice to watch the bullet bounce along the ground.

I'd like to get some 200 gr. bullets it originally used. "Matt's Boolets" or something like that has the 200 gr. available. Or did.

Cliff, yours is beautiful..
 

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As Cliff said, at this serial they still were more than half a year away from abandoning the commercial blue finish, so if yours is parkerized, that would be a refinish.

The Australians parkerized a lot of these in that general serial range in the 1950s, but there would be plenty of markings on the right side attesting to that. See below, 767114 originally shipped 5/12/41 and refurbished in Australia in 1954.

The factory would be very unlikely to have done the job on your gun.


I see that "Vega Sac Ca" on your last picture of the revolver. Are you familiar with Vega?
 
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