25-5 throat question

5732 Views 19 Replies 10 Participants Last post by BruceM, Mar 19, 2014

azmick

Discussion Starter · Feb 6, 2009

carl418 made mention of oversize throats on the 25-5 model and wondered what the story is on it. Measured mine with a caliper and found out I can't hold still enough for the kind of measuring. Next thing I did was to put a sampling of Sierra .4515 bullets though the cylinder throats. All slide right through. Next up was a sampleing of .452 Hornadys that slide through each of the six holes in the cylinder with just the slightest of a push, the same for each throat. Next came some .453 cast bullets and they need to be flat pushed through. Thoughts, comments?
I traded for the gun and it was "previously enjoyed"
The one comment I have on the gun is that it has the slickest trigger, double action and single action of any revolver I have ever fired, much less owned.

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

500 Magnum Nut

· #2 · Feb 6, 2009

Your gun will shoot 3" groups at 25 yards. Not "tack driver" accurate but good enough to knock down an attacker, just what it was made for. Many older guns are not as accurate as the new ones being produced today, because of the oversized throats and inconsistencies from one bore to another.
To make it shoot better, you will need to shoot oversized lead bullets.

carl418_resigned

· #3 · Feb 6, 2009

azmick,
Not all of the 25-5s have oversize throats. But, some do.. And, they're not uniform either. I've heard of some as large as .458. Mine measured to .456..

The best way to measure is with a gage pin set. However, it sounds like you've already found out that a .453 is close. I would imagine the standard .452 bullet would work just fine. If it's not shooting as accurately as you'd like it might be worth trying a .454 bullet. Lead, of course..

Carl

Reactions: 1

WGlide90

· #4 · Feb 6, 2009

Hi AZ, Carl, 500,

Az brings up a great question. I remember reading the same post from Carl as well.

I don't have a 45 but have a few M-29s, and I know that one specific factory round performs the best in my fav 44. From what I read in Carl's response here, it may be partially due to the fact that the round is sized the best for my piece.

If I were to look for ideal rounds, is there a rule of thumb for amount of interference fit of bullet to cyl bores? Say maybe .0005" or less or more? Or should it have clearence?

Thanks,
Dave

carl418_resigned

· #5 · Feb 6, 2009

Dave,
To begin with, I'm no expert. But, generally speaking, you want to choose the size of the bullet based on the barrel sizing. And, the best way to do that is to slug the barrel. Then, when dealing with lead bullets, go up a little. For instance, if the barrel measures to .429 you would choose a .430 bullet.

The barrel sizing is more important, but the cylinder does play a part. The rule of thumb is to try different bullet sizes until you get one to fit just tight enough that you have to push it through the charge hole with a pencil. If it drops through, it's too small. If you have to force it with a hammer, it's too big.

When it comes to the model 25-5 with over-large cylinder bores, people have found that the standard size bullets aren't always accurate so the next size bullet is usually helpful. However, other model guns generally don't have a cylinder bore problem. (Not to say that it can't; just saying it isn't a known factor to look for.)

Being able to choose bullet size is one of the advantages of reloading. Also, everything I said is for dealing with lead bullets. I'm not sure (at all) if it pertains to jacketed bullets. So, be careful taking this advice with anything other than lead!

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WGlide90

· #6 · Feb 6, 2009

Carl,

Thanks for your great explaination. The reason I'm interested at this point is I'm trying to determine if I should try to find a different factory round than I'm using now since my supply is getting low and I need to restock.

The Remington 240 gn SPs are what I find to be more accurate than others I've tried. problem is these rounds are about $1.50 a round. I used to get them for .50 a round. No more though.

From this info, I'm going to measure the rounds I have now get a average mean and see if other rounds are same. Try them and see if I get same results. I sight in at 50 & 100 yds.

Thanks Dave

carl418_resigned

· #7 · Feb 6, 2009

Dave,
You're very welcome.

Have you considered taking up reloading? It really pays for itself in short order, and thereafter the costs for ammo are much reduced.

Plus.. you can tailor your loads to what you want, as opposed to having to 'make do' with what's available.

WGlide90

· #8 · Feb 6, 2009

Carl,

Well since being in this forum, I have considered it more than ever before, due to the vast support and knowledge from members like yourself and the others.

And since the ammo prices are so high.

If I can't get tack driver results from affordable factory ammo at 50-100 yds, I will definately start working towards reloading myself.

Hey, then I could sell some to my bud! LOL.

Dave

carl418_resigned

· #9 · Feb 6, 2009

Dave,
If you decide you want to start, there's a wealth of knowledge here on this forum. All you need do is ask and you'll get all the help you need!

azmick

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 7, 2009

WGlide90 said:
Carl,

Well since being in this forum, I have considered it more than ever before, due to the vast support and knowledge from members like yourself and the others.

And since the ammo prices are so high.

If I can't get tack driver results from affordable factory ammo at 50-100 yds, I will definately start working towards reloading myself.

Hey, then I could sell some to my bud! LOL.

Dave

Dave, I think of reloading as an extension of shooting. It is an enjoyable way to spend time {for me, but I like cleaning guns too}
Thinking this might have, should have gone in the reloading section.

Reactions: 1

carl418_resigned

· #11 · Feb 7, 2009

azmick,
I look at reloading and shooting in the same way as you do.. Reloading really helps my shooting, and I find it very enjoyable as a hobby on it's own.

I tend to think you're right about this needing to be in the reloading forum too. I'll move it there..

G

· #12 · Feb 7, 2009

This thread really speaks to the world of casting and lubrisizing your bullets....Roll your own

I've owned 44 Mags that couldn't hit a 12" gong at 100 yards with factory sized bullets. When I finally figured out that my gun liked .431 sized bullets with RCBS lube...it couldn't miss.

Other factors contribute to long range accuracy in a DA revolver. And most likely, if you number your cylinders...you'll find one that gives the best accuracy over the other 5...

giz

carl418_resigned

· #13 · Feb 7, 2009

Giz,
You are so right! Knowing the bullet size a particular revolver needs, makes all the difference..

I haven't gotten to the point of casting yet, though. That's my next project.. In the meantime, buying the right size bullets and hand loading my own ammo is soooo much less money than 'store bought' ammo. And, a whole lot more fun!

xtimberman

· #14 · Feb 7, 2009

Azmick,

What is your bore size - measured across the grooves at max. width? If your cyl. throats are .453" and your bore is .452" or even .451", I would just size all my bullets to .453" and be done with it - maybe even .454" if I couldn't hone or lay my hands on a .453" sizer.

Think about this. :idea:
For a gun with dimensions as close as your revolver likely has, you want to choose a bullet as near to the size of the chamber throats as possible to limit the deformation of the slug as much as possible. When fired, an undersize bullet in the throat will obturate a few thou., pass through the forcing cone with some more deformation, and then be swaged down as it enters the lands and grooves - usually angled a few thou. off-center with the bore - thus the accuracy problems. A bullet sized to near dimensions of the cyl. throats will avoid most of the obturation and deformation as it passes through the throat and forcing cone and will only be subject to swaging as it enters the lands and grooves - and will likely be centered more closely with the bore.
Does this make sense? :?:

Another factor to think about is bullet design and weight. Revolvers can be finicky about this and refuse to accurately fling a bullet that doesn't match the twist of the rifling. As an example, I've never been able to accurately shoot 200 gr. bullets in either of my .45 Colt SAAs - They're all OK at 15 yds, but spread like a scattergun at 25yds and beyond!

...a lesson on slugging bores:
Always use a soft lead ball or bullet that is slightly larger than the bore - never one of your hard WW or linotype slugs. The soft lead will easily obturate to match the lands and grooves, and can be gently tapped or pushed through the bore. A hard slug cannot, and you will find yourself pounding on (ruining!!) a fragile cleaning rod or splintering a wooden dowel to no effect other than frustration!

xtm

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Reactions: 1

paul7177

· #15 · Mar 17, 2014

I just checked my 25-5, N prefix pinned revolver. Apparently the large throat is not universal. I cannot push a Hornady .451 XTP though by hand.

msharley

· #16 · Mar 17, 2014

azmick said:
carl418 made mention of oversize throats on the 25-5 model and wondered what the story is on it. Measured mine with a caliper and found out I can't hold still enough for the kind of measuring. Next thing I did was to put a sampling of Sierra .4515 bullets though the cylinder throats. All slide right through. Next up was a sampleing of .452 Hornadys that slide through each of the six holes in the cylinder with just the slightest of a push, the same for each throat. Next came some .453 cast bullets and they need to be flat pushed through. Thoughts, comments?
I traded for the gun and it was "previously enjoyed"
The one comment I have on the gun is that it has the slickest trigger, double action and single action of any revolver I have ever fired, much less owned.

Hey Mick,

The .452" or .453" cast bullet should work well.

May I recommend the 255 gr LSWC, with 7.5 gr of Universal Clays. May shoot a whole lot better than you think.

Later, Mark

The Happy Kaboomer

· #17 · Mar 17, 2014

For years I was happy shooting my cast & sized .452" dia. bullets through my Smiths & Rugers in 45LC. Then I aquired a 6" 25-5. My normally accurate loads leaded the barrel severely and accuracy was non existant. I did the bullet test on my cylinder. Jacketed .451's & .452's fell right through. My cast .452's fell right through. I ordered an RCBS .454" dia 250 gr. SWC mold and a .454 sizer. The .454" dia. bullet is a very snug push through on each cylinder charge hole. NOW..my 25-5 doesn't lead the barrel anymore as is as accurate as my other Smiths.

Reactions: 1

carl418_resigned

· #18 · Mar 18, 2014

Talk about a 'blast from the past'.. the original thread is 5 years old. I wondered why I didn't remember this post at first. Now I know!

Reactions: 1

blitzen25cat

· #19 · Mar 18, 2014

azmick said:
Dave, I think of reloading as an extension of shooting. It is an enjoyable way to spend time {for me, but I like cleaning guns too}
Thinking this might have, should have gone in the reloading section.

Hey Mick. Hope you're doing ok. I'm like you with respect to reloading, shooting, cleaning and maintaining my firearms. It's been a long and cold winter here in Indiana and I spent a lot of time doing just that. Working on a load for my Ruger .41 mag and am almost there..Shot it out back in the woods this morning...likes 200 gr.fn .410. Best of luck to ya Mick as you and yours are in our prayers. Regards Dick.

BruceM

· #20 · Mar 19, 2014

I would just size all my bullets to .453" and be done with it - maybe even .454"

I guess it really depends on what molds you have and what the "as-cast" diameter of the bullet is with the alloy you're using. Just saying it might not be that easy.

Bruce

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