Florida GOP Senator on red flag laws
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Thread: Florida GOP Senator on red flag laws

  1. #11
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    It's all a bad joke. We could go through any city, and town, large or small, and "red flag" every gang member, drug dealer, pimp, and meth lab junkie and toss them in jail, and the overall crime rate would plummet overnight. But instead the politicians want to "red flag" the statistically very few ordinary citizens who are borderline sociopaths, and some politicians no doubt are salivating about red flagging every NRA member.

    We could easily say certain politicians need to be Baker Acted for threatening to "nuke" law-abiding gun owners.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdismukes View Post
    At the risk of infuriating the membership, I'm changing my mind just a little on Red Flags. The issues I have with Red Flags are that they can bypass due process, and are susceptible to misuse. The case in Maryland last year where a SIL flagged her BIL, apparently over (pick one) inheritance or politics - I've heard both. She found an anti-gun judge who was more than willing to issue an ex parte warrant, and now the man is dead. The SIL is off scot-free. For the longest time I was absolutely against Red Flags in any way, shape, or form.

    SOMEHOW we need to catch people that are going off the rails. I don't think any of us deny we need to look at people who are making active noises on social media that they are going to commit an atrocity. I believe one guy was just arrested for making those threats very recently in FL. Per USA Today "The Volusia County Sheriff’s Office said Tristan Scott Wix, 25, of Daytona Beach was arrested Friday and charged with making threats to commit a mass shooting. Sheriff's deputies began investigating after they were alerted to multiple texts Wix allegedly sent with his plans to commit a mass shooting. The office did not say to whom Wix sent the messages."

    So, somebody said something.


    Today, and for some time now - how do we go after someone who is obviously mentally ill? Clearly whacko, needs to be institutionalized? We have a process. It was in the 1890s and early 1900s we used to involuntarily commit eccentric Aunt Jane because she was too much trouble, or rich Uncle Fred because he wasn't dying fast enough and someone wanted to get their hands on his estate. They were shoved into barbaric insane asylums, lobotomized, drugged. There were so many egregious instances strict laws were passed requiring full-on trials with witnesses for both sides before anyone could be committed. They fixed the issue with proper laws about the subject.

    So I think it is also true we need to look at Red Flags in much the same light. Here is what I would insist on before supporting any sort of Red Flag - and I have no idea if this is what the NRA is thinking about or not.
    1. No "imminent danger" exclusions to due-process. Today there are Red Flag laws with due process, but that can be skipped if the threat is claimed to be "imminent". NO EXCEPTIONS, Due Process or it's unconstitutional.

    2. Serious non-negotiable penalties when people are NOT ultimately Red Flagged. This is to avoid someone getting miffed and doing the equivalent of "swatting" the person.
    a. The accuser pays 100% of the accused's legal fees
    b. The accuser pays for all lost wages by the accused
    c. The accuser pays a hefty fine if the accused lost his job due to the accusation
    d. The accuser pays a hefty fine for what has amounted to slander.

    3. if someone is making overt threats, arrest them. Making a threat is already illegal. Then go through any sort of Red Flag due process after that, process the arrest for the threat separately.

    On item 2, I would work the law so that a judge cannot say "well, you had just cause to be concerned, but even though we find he's OK anyway, no fines". If they can't convict, they must acquit, and fine the crap out of the accuser.

    I want this to be called only in the most obvious cases. The Cruz kid, Parkland, would be exactly one that should have had a Red Flag, there were signs out the wazoo he was going real bad. This kid in Volusia, making overt threats on Facebook - yep, intervene. Even if all he was doing was being a keyboard warrior, that crap gotta stop. A few arrests for being an idiot might slow down this internet one-upmanship that's going on.

    Of course, civil discussion would be appreciated! Thoughts? Alternatives???
    I already mention that his girlfriend turned him in.

    Baker acts already exists so that was the first Red Flag Law.

    The "new and improved" Red Flag laws are far more intrusive to our rights. The are more of a Gestapo tactic.
    The subject has been beat to death, the laws are already in place and gonna get worse!

    MWAG nailed it posted above!
    NRA Certified RSO

  3. #13
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    There's no lack of conjecture and opinion right now.

    For proof we'll have to go through it and look back.

    And as with the assault weapons ban, we will have to realize when it didn't accomplish anything other than filling up our jails.

    BTW, I just got a new AR in anticipation. I heard Mitch sound like he was in favor of a new ban, and then I heard Lindsey say he's keeping his.

    I know the dems are more inclined to usurp our civil rights (and I have no love for them) but we do ourselves no favors by claiming it's a partisan issue IMO. It just makes us look more hysterical, and that doesn't help the cause. Sometimes ya just gotta calm down for the sake of at least appearing to be rational.
    mrerick likes this.
    Member GOA, NRA & SAF

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWAG View Post
    It's all a bad joke. We could go through any city, and town, large or small, and "red flag" every gang member, drug dealer, pimp, and meth lab junkie and toss them in jail, and the overall crime rate would plummet overnight. But instead the politicians want to "red flag" the statistically very few ordinary citizens who are borderline sociopaths, and some politicians no doubt are salivating about red flagging every NRA member.

    We could easily say certain politicians need to be Baker Acted for threatening to "nuke" law-abiding gun owners.


    And all the cop haters could red flag the LEOs making it impossible to do their jobs... of course we could red flag the Secret Service so the politicos could see what it's like to be unprotected.
    One of the real issues is the right to a speedy trial (6th Amendment) is ignored so once the gestapo takes your guns it's forever & a day to possibly get them back. Some of the courts are so buried in BS it can be years before you ever get a chance to redeem yourself.
    ChattanoogaPhil likes this.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment & buy one" Jesus - Luke 22:36

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
    'When properly constructed, red flag laws are a common sense measure to keep weapons out of the hands of any person who threatens to harm themselves or others, or who is mentally unstable."

    Is Rick Scott saying anything different than the NRA?
    Scott was touting it first. The NRA is not the root of all evil in mankind.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    -Arthur C. Clarke
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  7. #16
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    Florida also has a ballot initiative in the early stages to ban semiauto rifles that can hold mags of 10 or more rounds, which would include Ruger 10/22s. So far it's not getting many signatures, let's hope it stays that way. They would graciously allow existing owners to register them with the state (which is currently illegal, Florida bans gun registration), then after a year they can molon lobby us.
    Injunbro likes this.

  8. #17
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    You're watching gun grabber strategies all working in parallel and at the same time.

    One tactic is to overwhelm the opposition. You are simply seeing the Democrat secular socialist machine insisting on getting it's way, in spite of all the damage it will do to liberty in our country.

    There may be constitutional challenges to these bad laws, but don't hang your hopes on getting them overturned that way. It's much better and ultimately easier to oppose them now and prevent them from being passed into law by legislatures in the first place.

    The time to act is now. The gun grabbers are tasting blood, and the politicians craving power think that they need to "do something", even if it's tragically wrong.
    Injunbro likes this.
    Cheers! Marc


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  9. #18
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    Until citizens quit minding everyone else's business and quit snitching on each other, nothing will chgange and red flag laws just provide added impetus for that to occur.

    Glad I don't live in Florida but just read Michigan is also debating them right now and I just called out congressional representative (who Amy and I know personally) and expressed my extreme displeasure that they would even debate such garbage. He happens to be a gun owner and hunter as well. Told him to consider the implications. We will see if my call sunk in at all. Hopefully it did.
    Injunbro likes this.
    Daryl......

    'You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool mom....

  10. #19
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    Dear fellow gun owners,

    If you start beginning to think Red Flag gun confiscation operations could be done right, stop. Stop to think about how other firearm related laws have been described but in reality how they're used. This isn't some abstract notion or fear mongering, the below is reality.

    GCA/FFL system was to simply prevent firearms sales to federally prohibited persons at point of sale. Today, the FFL system is being used by states as a choke point to limit the number of guns law-abiding citizens can purchase during a period of time and for firearm purchase permit schemes; ban private firearms sales among law-abiding citizens; force law-abiding citizens to purchase ammo through FFLs. Feds collect 4473s of law-abiding citizens by the truckload and enter into databases. NICS is being used by states to expand the criteria for prohibited persons. The NFA is being used to discourage law-abiding citizens with waiting periods of a year or more for a tax stamp, and as a political tool to ban firearm related parts which are legal by the letter of the law resulting in creating criminals of otherwise law-abiding citizens.

    Now ask yourself.... Do you think any Red Flag gun confiscation system being described today, even in the most well-intentioned and 'due process' terms, will be the same system after it's implemented?
    Injunbro likes this.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 19and41 View Post
    Scott was touting it first. The NRA is not the root of all evil in mankind.
    Agreed. I didn't mean to accuse the NRA of having an original thought. IIRC, Rick Scott first signed Red Flag gun confiscation into law, then a few days later NRA published their video ad advocating for Red Flag gun confiscation.


 
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