+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By DocZeus
  • 1 Post By mmitch
  • 1 Post By Injunbro
  • 2 Post By daybreak2350ad

Thread: J-Frame: bolt fitting & repair? - pivot end not flush, thumb release stud loose

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Member #
    8477
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    10
    Liked
    5 times

    J-Frame: bolt fitting & repair? - pivot end not flush, thumb release stud loose

    Got a M34-1 with thumb-release threaded stud on the original cylinder bolt broken off, I'd guess from over-tightening the retaining nut/screw. Installed a new bolt but it has two problems:

    a) The threaded stud, which looks like it's press-fit into its hole in the bolt, is loose and can be pulled out (with or without the thumb piece & nut attached).

    b) When assembled, the bolt's pivot end is not quite flush with the frame's recoil plate. I estimate it remains recessed a few thousands, just enough to make it fairly hard to open the cylinder (need to push on it from right side while also sliding thumb release fully forward).

    When I do J. Kuhnhausen's reassembly procedure "Recheck Cylinder Open and Close", I can catch my fingernail on hole edge and detect that bolt pivot end is just slightly recessed (not flush). I have checked the bolt, frame groove, hole edge for dirt, burrs etc., and forward sliding travel with and without thumb piece installed, but cannot get pivot end flush.

    So I'm wondering if anyone out there has experienced similar S&W bolt problems. My questions:

    a) Can loose thumb piece stud be staked or brazed back in place? I realize that getting the whole bolt heated up is not good since it could soften any heat-treat hardness that this part needs.

    b) Can the bolt be "fitted" by careful light grinding or stoning somewhere to increase forward travel just enough that the pivot end comes up flush with recoil plate surface? I'd like to salvage parts I have rather than buy another new part.

    Would greatly appreciate any help with this!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Member #
    5220
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kain-Tuck-EE
    Posts
    3,995
    Liked
    7055 times
    Greetings, Daybreak2350ad!

    A few questions for you:

    1. Where did you get the "new" bolt from? If it was ordered from some source other than S&W directly, did you specify the frame/model#/engineering change# when ordering it, or did they just say "it's a J-Frame bolt? They AIN'T all the same, and require some hand fitting to make them work smoothly and properly.....Read Page 20, the first "Checkout Section" page, where Jerry talks about somebody previously working on a gun now in front of you, and they crammed unfitted/improperly-matched parts into your revolver.....those kinda issues can make you pull your hair out, when trying to ascertain exactly why a revolver isn't working properly.....

    I've run into that a few times, on older S&W's I've purchased......These days, if I'm looking to buy an older S&W, and I see ANY deformation of the sideplate surfaces (usually from some bonehead PRYING-OFF the sideplate, instead of "knocking" it off), I'll pass on it......It's just not worth the issues that can be found, and there's already visible evidence that an uninformed individual has been "poking around" in the internals.....

    2. As for the thumbpiece threaded stud coming out, I would relegate "staking" it in place as a last resort.....the stud should be slightly oversized from the hole, and should "press-fit" in there with slight pressure or REALLY light taps from a brass hammer.....did you check to make sure the bolt is straight? Lay it on a KNOWN truly-flat surface (a machinist's set of parallel blocks would be great), and check straightness.....if there's ANY bow to it, it may "stretch" the thumpiece stud drilled hole, and make it loose enough to not retain it.....You might even try a good retaining compound (such as LocTite #601) in the hole, press in the thumb stud, and let it cure for 24 hours at room temperature before trying re-assembly.....

    It's hard to judge a problem on my end, without actually seeing the revolver in question......and no, I am NOT a gunsmith, but after 30+ years of playing with and learning from/about them, and seeing more than a few "mistakes" (some created by wear, others by uninformed/careless "gunsmiths", and I use that term rather cynically), I've picked up a few tidbits of knowledge along the way.....Jerry Kuhnhausen is a MASTER of his craft, and his book shows that, in his attention to detail in the text.....

    Let us know how the further check-out goes, ask away with the questions, and maybe we can help you ascertain the exact problem.....if not, I'd be looking up a local gunsmith that specializes in revolvers....Some things are just out of the scope of us "do-it-yourselfers", but occasionally, with the right guidance, even a Blind Duck finds a Junebug.....I'm living proof of that.

    Good Luck.....

    DocZeus
    AKA
    David
    Last edited by DocZeus; 07-07-2012 at 02:06 AM. Reason: Spelling.....
    cush619 likes this.
    NRA Member.....SWCA Member.....Semi-Retired, But Not Dead Yet.....

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Member #
    88
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Twangtown
    Posts
    5,222
    Liked
    6317 times
    daybreak,

    David knows far more mechanical procedure, than I.
    I would add to his comments that you might also try to peen the bolt forward of the stud hole. I have read of this technique being used to stretch a hand that is slightly too short. As, David stated, it is important that the bolt stay absolutely flat.


    Good luck!

    Mike
    cush619 likes this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Member #
    2281
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    9,767
    Liked
    12558 times
    How well does the crane fit to the frame when closed? If the crane is bent (usually from some bozo whipping his wrist to close it) it will also need replacing. A bent crane will also give the problem you described.
    cush619 likes this.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment & buy one" Jesus - Luke 22:36

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Member #
    8477
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    10
    Liked
    5 times
    Good point; checked it out. Happy to say that thankfully, in this case, crane (a/k/a yoke) alignment is fine and there's no endshake, excessive wobble, or other cylinder problems -- just a bogus cylinder bolt.
    Thanx for input!

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Member #
    8477
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    10
    Liked
    5 times
    Hmmm, that's the kind of creative solution that these forums are good for sharing! Peening -- never thought of that, but hey, what works for a hand might also work for a bolt. This technique is basically cold-forging the part by hammering to stretch, or lengthen, it without otherwise ruining it (such as hopelessly bending or widening it too). We are talking thousandths of an inch here but technically, peening it longer would also make it slightly thinner in the peened area. Will let you know what worked for me once I get around to fixing the problem. It's a fun fixer-upper project overall. Thanx!

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Member #
    8477
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    10
    Liked
    5 times
    THANK YOU DOCZEUS et al. for the expert advice. Words of wisdom.

    Got parts from source in 'Vegas, good thumb piece and nut, bad bolt. After about five hours at the bench, I managed to repair the bad bolt using very delicate machinist skills and following tools:

    vise
    anvil
    ball peen hammer
    very sharp prick punch (60 degree point)
    center punch (45 degree point)
    fine-cut diamond file
    honing stone
    straight edge, parallels, dial calipers

    I fixed the loose threaded stud by staking it in its hole (mushrooming the end). That was relatively easy.
    The pivot pin in the new bolt was .0055" short. Since this is pressed into the bolt, I was able to drive it forward just enough to be flush and then stake it in place from the sides.
    After that, much patience and several hours "hand-fitting" the part to the frame so it's flush and slides freely. Some filing and stoning to restore surfaces flat and straight. A little tap-tap-tapping to get the pivot pin perfectly parallel with the bolt and aligned with its hole in the frame--not easy since it would stick and bind at first.
    Complete bolt is solid now, action works smooth, cylinder swings open easily with just slight push from right with index finger; should hold up indefinitely along with the other lockwork parts. HOWEVER, if it fails I am going straight to Smith and Wesson and buy a new bolt from them. Fixing the part myself was gratifying, but not an experience I want to spend time on again.

    Ah yes, Conan's reply to the chieftans' question, "What is good in life?" Ghengis Khan also said, to defeat the enemy, and "to sleep on the white bellies of his wives and daughters." Now that's the spirit! Hey, it could happen. Semper paratus.
    DocZeus and cush619 like this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Member #
    88
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Twangtown
    Posts
    5,222
    Liked
    6317 times
    day,

    Way to "git after it", son!

    Mike

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Member #
    7463
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    western ma.
    Posts
    8
    Liked
    0 times
    did you check the centerpin?

  10. #10
    Site Moderator
    Supporting Member

    Member #
    10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    7,791
    Liked
    1385 times
    Wow nice job!!
    Let go of anything that stops you from having everything…DM

    Dom






 

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Similar Threads

  1. s&w airweight 642 cylinder release button loose
    By Snubbie in forum S&W Revolvers 1945 to Present
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-07-2012, 05:29 PM
  2. Thumb Release replacement?????
    By Cronus in forum S&W Revolvers 1945 to Present
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-29-2011, 03:58 AM
  3. Locking bolt/extractor rod is loose. HELP!
    By jack in forum S&W - Gunsmithing
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-15-2011, 03:02 AM
  4. FS K-Frame bolt, plunger and spring.
    By DB30 in forum WTS, WTB, WTT-OTHER ITEMS
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-30-2011, 09:36 AM
  5. N frame rebound slide stud
    By saemetric in forum S&W - Gunsmithing
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-03-2009, 05:49 PM

Search tags for this page

buy s&w 642 cylinder release rod spring

,

gunsmithing pivot nuts

,

j frame cylinder release repair

,

jframe cylinder release screw

,

release bolt on smith and westen model 36

,

repair of smith and wesson i bolt

,

smith and wesson mainspring pivot

,

smith/wesson j fram hammer stud nut

,

tighten cylinder j frame

,

what damage is visible from prying a smith and wesson side plate

Click on a term to search for related topics.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SmithandWessonForums.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson. We are an enthusiast site and fans of Smith & Wesson Firearms. To visit the official Smith & Wesson site, click here: Smith-Wesson.com.