FAQ - My +P study.

[grasshopper]

Dave, I think you're on the right track about the quality of some guns that a novice will stuff ammo into. Case in point: At the last gun show some yo-yo was trying to sell a very old old Spanish knock-off of a S&W .38 to a young guy who obviously didn't have a clue about anything but the price spread. Seems like more and more of these "junkers" are beginning to surface, and I wouldn't trust any pistol load in one.

[nonegoodleft]

There are three factors which affect the wounding and incapacitation performance of a projectile; 1) depth of penetration 2) expansion 3) retained volume / weight. Of course shot placement is the most important thing the shooter can supply but the projectile itself can only supply these three things. I just perused my copy of the 2009 FBI ammunition testing. I compared all of the similar 38 sp. rounds that were offered in both +p and standard pressures, there was even a +p+ round in there. The high pressure rounds didn't offer any consistent advantage over the standard pressure rounds, in fact they were outperformed just about as often as not. What is the advantage to the +p round? I know there's a velocity window every caliber has in which the three standards of performance are at their best. The increased pressure doesn't increase that window as far as I can tell.

[Kframe]

My K frame m15-3 was made around 1955, and it has seen its fare share of potent loads. My carry load is a 158gr at 950-1000 fps and my practice loads are 158s ranging from 950-1000. Before me, the carry load was a hot number cooked up for my father in law for his fathers police reserve work. It was a 110gr hp at over 1200fps, probably nearing 1300fps. This gun, and my father in laws similarly old snubby have fired untold thousands of these loads.

In fact when we reload we still use the older manuals, and have yet to blow up a quality revolver. By quality there are only 3 companies to trust- S&W,Colt and Ruger. Heck I found a load for a 180grn swc at over 900fps for the .38spc, tho im hesitant to try it. From what i gather its pressure is right near max. It was mentioned in a magazine article on the 357mag. They said that the 180grn bullet was to long for the 357 mag cylinder if loaded into the 357's case. So they loaded it into the .38spc, and then listed it on there load data sheet as beeing 20,000psi. If it proves safe, i intend to make that my woods/outdoors walking load for the increased penetration it offers over my current loading of 158s-950fps.

So Ya, i think that loads for pistols have been wimpified by the lawyers and reduced. Having said that, i feel that a low pressure swc or WC load would be a dandy carry load for a snubby, or heck even a bigger revolver. Better accuracy due to the lower recoil and a easy to shoot load that you can practice with. What say you, i dont think that hollow points are the end all be all of self defence loads.

[bubbinator]

SaxonPig- 1+ on your posting! I, as you appear to be, am a shooter/reloader with "70s" experience. I love the Speer #8 Manual and that Sierra from the same era-that's where I learned to shoot/reload! My favorite .38 Special reload was in the "Defensive Load" Section and used SR4756 powder! My duty gun was a USAF S&W M15 and off duty was a 6" S&W M28. I carried the 125gr. Sierras on duty (shame on me-but I'm now 64 and retired from 2 LEO careeers-so TSGI). The only bad experience with those 38 loads was with a fellow SP wanting to impress his girlfriend and sell her a gun-shot some in a 70's era Rossi 2" 38. They cracked the cylinder! He complained but I pointed to the LARGE PRINT on the box of reloads-DO NOT SHOOT IN ANY GUN OTHER THAN S&W/COLT/RUGER EVER!!! My wife, while in the Police Academy, was allowed to shoot some 140gr. Sierra JHCs I loaded for hunting per the Sierra Manual and the forcing cone on her gun cracked! The Range Master looked at the brass and found it not be over pressure by firing it in his own gun, where no pressure signs were noted. That PD mandated 4 time a yr quals with full power ammo (125gr Fed/Rem Speer/PMC) and that was declared to be the problem. They switched from S&W M66s to S&W 686s them 9mms. I have some 70s era "Sky Marshall" WW 38 +P+ 110 jhp in brass and nickle cases that don't seem over loaded but the bullets work great on all living targets, great expansion. My 9mm carry load from that era, a Sierra 124gr JHP over Herco is 1300 fps+/- and my BHPs have all loved them! Thanks for a very well presented and comprehensive article.

[SaxonPig]

I have heard the comment about new powders not being the same as old ones but that is not my experience. I have used older powders (a can of Unique with a $6.95 price sticker on it) and brand new Unique side by side and the load results were identical. Some powders may be different, but I sort of doubt it. Any real difference would cause them to give it a new identity to avoid litigation as a result of using old manuals still out there.